Denon 4306 and LSi9 + LSiC

NYC Guy

Hi all... I'm in the process of making some significant upgrades (at least by my standards!). I am replacing my Onkyo TX600 with a Denon AVR-4306. I also am replacing my Polk RM6700 series of satellites with LSi9s for the front and an LSiC for the center. I already have a PSW404 sub. For now, I am keeping two of the RM6700 for the surround speakers.

A few questions:

1. Is the Denon suitable for driving the LSi9s? I know they are 4 ohm, but I would believe this Denon would be powerful enough?

2. The auto-setup routine on the Denon identified the LSi9s and the LSiC as "large" speakers. Is it correct to use this setting?

3. Do I need to specify that the fronts are 4 ohms and the surrounds are 8? Sometimes, on SACDs for instance, the surrounds sound clearer and more powerful than the LSi9s, which is not what I would expect.

4. I bi-wired the LSi9s. The Denon allows the back channel surrounds to be re-routed for bi-wiring purposes.

5. All speakers are routed through the receiver (not thru the PSW 404). I assume this would be optimal, given the receiver's potential audio level control, etc.

Any insight on the above questions or suggestions in terms of how to optimize would be most welcome! It seems to me that the LSi9s just might not be giving me the sounds I would have expected from everything I read.

Thanks!

cfrizz

Welcome NYC Guy!

1. Is the Denon suitable for driving the LSi9s? I know they are 4 ohm, but I would believe this Denon would be powerful enough?

No it really isn't, and you are hearing difference between those & your easier to drive surrounds. You need separate amplification to power your LSI's properly.

2. The auto-setup routine on the Denon identified the LSi9s and the LSiC as "large" speakers. Is it correct to use this setting?

Your speakers should all be set to small so that the bass will be routed to your sub.

3. Do I need to specify that the fronts are 4 ohms and the surrounds are 8? Sometimes, on SACDs for instance, the surrounds sound clearer and more powerful than the LSi9s, which is not what I would expect.

Refer to answer #1

4. I bi-wired the LSi9s. The Denon allows the back channel surrounds to be re-routed for bi-wiring purposes.

Forget about biwiring & start saving for a 200 watt or more separate amplifier to properly power your LSI's

5. All speakers are routed through the receiver (not thru the PSW 404). I assume this would be optimal, given the receiver's potential audio level control, etc.

You basically have it backwards. Refer to answer #2.

You have a great system it simply requires more power to sound outstanding!

NYC Guy

Thanks cfrizz. I appreciate the insight. Crutchfield seems to be of a mind that the 4306 should have more than enough power to drive the LSi9s. It is a pretty powerful receiver... Can you specify what specifically you think the separate amp will achieve for me? Sorry... Not an expert on this obviously!

What amps would you recommend?

Dennis Gardner

Cathy uses the Outlaw monoblocks with great success on her LSi lineup.

The Denon is a great AVR, but 7 channels into 4 ohms with audio/video processing added to the single power supply is asking too much. It will work at low levels, but strain to drive them properly especially set to large.

cfrizz

Don't I wish I had LSI's Dennis!

I use a Parasound 205 watt amp for my 16 yr old RTA-8's & 1 Outlaw Monoblock for my center channel. My Denon handles the surrounds. All of my speakers are 8 ohms.

NYC Guy, here is something I posted just yesterday for someone asking the same question. Your receiver is powerful if you were driving all 8 ohms speakers. But the LSI's demand a lot more power since they are 4 ohms. If you turn it up too loud, it will put the Denon into protect mode.

You will also notice with the extra power, the music will be clearer, dialog will be easier to hear, the bass will get a significant boost as well.

"In a word, Power!

Receivers have everything all in one box, which makes it convenient, however, there is a compromise there in that most of the receivers focus on the processing side while the amp portion takes a hit since if it is 7 channel receiver, it has to split that 100 watts 7 ways, and at the same time doing all the fancy processing for your movies, ect.

"Holydoc, If I knew then what I know now what I would do would be to buy a 5 channel amp from Outlaw Audio @ 200Wts per channel & be done with it.

You should buy as much power as you can afford. You blow speakers by not giving them enough power & making them work too hard by turning up the volume.

I subscribe to the addage that more is better, that way no matter what future speakers you get you will never again have to worry about having enough power to drive them.

And as you correctly noted, the amp can be attached to any future upgrades you make, including the jump to a separate pre-processor!"

Toxis

trust me, the denon cannot power the LSi's to their full potential. The thing is, the LSi's are so inefficient that even at 4 ohms, they don't have as much output as a small satellite with a powerful receiver. If it was me, I'd downgrade from the 4306 to a 3806 and put the extra money into a seperate amplifer. You'll be 10 times happier with the sound quality. Read my sig... you'll see why I say what I say. good luck.

NYC Guy

Thanks everyone for the input. I picked up a 1/2 price Adcom 5-channel amp yesterday to see if I sensed an upgrade in sonic quality with a separate amp. I haven't had a ton of time with it yet -- and maybe it's purely psychological -- but I do think I discern an improvement in clarity and general quality.

Thanks again for the helpful input!

cfrizz

Terrific! Enjoy!

straightedge

NYC Guy wrote:

Hi all... I'm in the process of making some significant upgrades (at least by my standards!). I am replacing my Onkyo TX600 with a Denon AVR-4306. I also am replacing my Polk RM6700 series of satellites with LSi9s for the front and an LSiC for the center. I already have a PSW404 sub. For now, I am keeping two of the RM6700 for the surround speakers.

A few questions:

1. Is the Denon suitable for driving the LSi9s? I know they are 4 ohm, but I would believe this Denon would be powerful enough?

2. The auto-setup routine on the Denon identified the LSi9s and the LSiC as "large" speakers. Is it correct to use this setting?

3. Do I need to specify that the fronts are 4 ohms and the surrounds are 8? Sometimes, on SACDs for instance, the surrounds sound clearer and more powerful than the LSi9s, which is not what I would expect.

4. I bi-wired the LSi9s. The Denon allows the back channel surrounds to be re-routed for bi-wiring purposes.

5. All speakers are routed through the receiver (not thru the PSW 404). I assume this would be optimal, given the receiver's potential audio level control, etc.

Any insight on the above questions or suggestions in terms of how to optimize would be most welcome! It seems to me that the LSi9s just might not be giving me the sounds I would have expected from everything I read.

Thanks!

hey, are you intrested in selling the 2 rm2350 speakers and the 2360 center speaker to me? If so, how much and what color are they?

SuperDave

I love what the Adcom did for my sound!

josh_parsons626

Hey NYC Guy. IMO I think you should bite your tongue for now and save your money for an Outlaw Audio 990/7700 combo. What that is is the best Outlaw Audio pre/pro out today and the best (IMO) 7-channel amp for the money. The 7700 is 300 watts @4ohm. You can get both of these for $2,898 in a combo deal. That's what I'm saving for right now. You can ask all these guys they'll tell you the same thing. That's gonna be your best bet if you want something that "sounds expensive" without the expensive part LOL

AlanD

Although it's a bit late to the post, I probably should add the comment that the AVR-480x or 580x receivers do have enough power for the LSi's. Could it be better with high-end seperates? Sure. But Denon's flagship receivers can definitely do a good job w/LSi speakers.