HT Guys I need a little clarification

heiney9

Being as I'm a 2-channel guy and my knowledge of HT is somewhat limited because I don't follow it as closely as some. I have a question. Many movie DVD's that are being released don't always have a seperate 2.0 track to choose from. I'm finding lately that it's either 5.1 DD or 5.1 DTS. Of course I have to choose 5.1 DD. What's going on here? How are 5.1 channels being blended to a 2.0 channel system.

Certain sounds seem to be recessed a bit, but at the same time things give the illusion of being more spread out. It seems to work fine and I don't have to strain to hear anything. But I want to understand what's going on because I am curious.

Thanks

H9

PolkThug

heiney9 wrote:

How are 5.1 channels being blended to a 2.0 channel system.

I would guess your processor would send the center channel data to both L and R, and all left-side data (front and rear) would go to L, and all right-side data (front and rear) would go to R.

heiney9

PolkThug wrote:

I would guess your processor would send the center channel data to both L and R, and all left-side data (front and rear) would go to L, and all right-side data (front and rear) would go to R.

Makes sense. I don't have a processor. The DVDp is hooked thru the analog outs (R, L) to the Aux in on my preamp. I guess the processing chip in the DVDp would blend it. Still wondering exactly what's going on here.

H9

heiney9

Just to clarify. The DVDp I have is older and it only has analog outs (R, L) and a digital coax and optical out. No processing takes place with the DVDp. I'm running digital coax to my DAC and then out of the DAC into the Aux on my pre. It appears no processing is taking place.

H9

peteran

probably your player is defaulting to PCM instead of direct digital.

heiney9

peteran wrote:

probably your player is defaulting to PCM instead of direct digital.

Ok, again makes sense. Maybe you can answer this, why is it when on other DVD's which have a 2.0 setting, that setting sounds different than the 5.1 DD setting. Both should be PCM if the player is defaulting to PCM in 5.1 DD mode .

H9

Ricardo

H9,

All I can say is, get a 5.1 system and enjoy the movies as the are supposed to sound...

*leaning back waiting for the punch*

heiney9

HTrookie wrote:

H9,

All I can say is, get a 5.1 system and enjoy the movies as the are supposed to sound...

*leaning back waiting for the punch*

*clenches fist, **** arm back, pushes arm forward, stops right before HTrookie's shoulder and gently taps him* That didn't hurt did it?:p .

Someday when I have enough space to build a dedicated, well designed 2-ch room then I can set-up a modest HT where my system is now. Right now it's just not that important to me. I was just wondering what's going on w/ playing 5.1 DD output thru a 2-ch system.

H9

Skynut

HTrookie wrote:

H9,

All I can say is, get a 5.1 system and enjoy the movies as the are supposed to sound...

*leaning back waiting for the punch*

I must agree, movies are just better on a good surround system.

adam2434

heiney9 wrote:

Ok, again makes sense. Maybe you can answer this, why is it when on other DVD's which have a 2.0 setting, that setting sounds different than the 5.1 DD setting. Both should be PCM if the player is defaulting to PCM in 5.1 DD mode .

H9

A couple things could be happening there.

1) Sometimes the 2.0 is an uncompressed LPCM track, sometimes at a higher bit depth than standard redbook CDs. For example, I have some concert DVDs that have a 20 bit LPCM stereo track. The 5.1 soundtrack will be DD or DTS, which are compressed formats.

2) A 2.0 soundtrack (whether LPCM or DD) mixed by the engineer will not necessarily be the same as the 2.0 soundtrack that is downmixed in your DVD player from the original 5.1 soundtrack. Sure, your DVD player is converting both to PCM (assuming you have set the DVD player up to do that), but they do not necessarily have the same info/mix. Essentially, one was mixed by the engineer and one was mixed by your DVD player.

unc2701

If there's not a 2.0 track, most players downmix the 5.1 into matrix dolby surround and dump this via PCM. So w/ 2.0 you get the sound engineer's mix (usually matrix dolby, but possibly different from the original 5.1) w/0 2.0, you get the same data as the 5.1, just matrixed.

edit: ok, that's twice today I've taken too long and posted about the same thing as the guy above me.

heiney9

adam2434 wrote:

2) A 2.0 soundtrack (whether LPCM or DD) mixed by the engineer will not necessarily be the same as the 2.0 soundtrack that is downmixed in your DVD player from the original 5.1 soundtrack. Sure, your DVD player is converting both to PCM (assuming you have set the DVD player up to do that), but they do not necessarily have the same info/mix. Essentially, one was mixed by the engineer and one was mixed by your DVD player.

That makes the most sense. It seems we are at the mercy of the person who mixes the audio. I have noticed a great degree of variation on music DVD's. Some seem to sound incredible others are just ok, in the 2.0 setting. I mainly own music DVD's and the differences between all of them are quite apparent. I actually sold a DVD I had because it had no 2.0 option and 5.1 DD option sounded horrible in 2-ch. Why can't they just make a typical 2.0 PCM track mixed for 2-ch. It can't be that hard, I know that's not what the masses want, but it's what I want :mad:.

H9

mldennison

heiney9 wrote:

Why can't they just make a typical 2.0 PCM track mixed for 2-ch. It can't be that hard, I know that's not what the masses want, but it's what I want :mad:.

sorry, dont think you are going to be getting that anytime soon, the number of people running 2 ch HT that can hear a difference (not just through the tv speakers) is not going to justify the space on the disc for an extra soundtrack. guess you will just have to run out and buy a HTIB

adam2434

Yeah, DVD's audio recording/mixing/mastering/transfer quality is all over the map, same as other audio media. If the original recording was bad, the 5.1 would be bad, and so would a 2.0 downmixed from it.

How a recording is mixed and transferred to DD or DTS is a factor too. For example, the 5.1 mix of one of my Stevie Ray Vaughn DVDs is horrible, but the 2.0 is much better. The 5.1 is hollow and compressed - unlistenable.

heiney9

adam2434 wrote:

Yeah, DVD's audio recording/mixing/mastering/transfer quality is all over the map, same as other audio media. If the original recording was bad, the 5.1 would be bad, and so would a 2.0 downmixed from it.

How a recording is mixed and transferred to DD or DTS is a factor too. For example, the 5.1 mix of one of my Stevie Ray Vaughn DVDs is horrible, but the 2.0 is much better. The 5.1 is hollow and compressed - unlistenable.

Which SRV DVD? From memory they all sound vg/ex on the 2.0 tracks.

mldennison wrote:

sorry, dont think you are going to be getting that anytime soon, the number of people running 2 ch HT that can hear a difference (not just through the tv speakers) is not going to justify the space on the disc for an extra soundtrack. guess you will just have to run out and buy a HTIB

Yeah, Yeah...that's hoping for alot. It seems pretty basic to me to mixdown a nice sounding 2.0 track. It certainly wouldn't take up much space, especially on music DVD. Movie DVD's with all the extra's, I could see that maybe being a problem. Quasi, mixed-down, hastily mixed, DVD's still sound loads better on my 2.0 ch than on a HTiB . So I'll make due with what I have for now!!

adam2434

I think it was the 5.1 from El Mocambo (sp?) that sucked so bad, with the 2.0 being much better.

There's another one that I think sounds better in 2.0 - Neil Young's Black and Gold.

For the rest, I prefer the 5.1 mix.

Drumingman

Yeah Yeah Yeah A HTIB would work great for you.
Be sure to get the cute little cubes.