Harman Kardon AVR DACs

cbl117

I've been doing some more reading and have a question for ya'll.:)

If I connect a CDP to a HK AVR630 using analog interconnects, will the HK bypass its internal DACs and use only the CP's DACs??

I ask this because I'm looking to upgrade my CDP, but don't know if I should upgrade my pre-amp first. I'm looking at a Rotel 1072 CDP.

Thanks,
Chris

Mike682

If I connect a CDP to a HK AVR630 using analog interconnects, will the HK bypass its internal DACs and use only the CP's DACs??

Yes, the DACs in the internal cd player will be used to convert the signal to analog and then send the analog signal to the receiver's inputs

I ask this because I'm looking to upgrade my CDP, but don't know if I should upgrade my pre-amp first. I'm looking at a Rotel 1072 CDP.

The AVR630 is a receiver. I you can't just upgrade the pre-amp section. However, you can add amps to the receiver using the pre-outs though and use the receiver as a pre-pro

cbl117

Sorry, I might not have explained my situation very well.

I am already using the HK reciever as just a pre-amp because I have an exteral amp connected to the pre-outs.

I'm looking to upgrade my CDP but wasn't sure if its worth it with my current pre-amp (The HK AVR).

adam2434

cbl117 wrote:

If I connect a CDP to a HK AVR630 using analog interconnects, will the HK bypass its internal DACs and use only the CP's DACs??
Chris

I think that will depend on how you use the AVR. For example, if you're using bass management or a surround mode with an analog source, I think the AVR handles this in the digital domain, which means the AVR would do an A-D conversion, then a D-A conversion (using its DAC) prior to the analog preamp stage.

If you're using a "Pure" or "Direct" 2-ch mode in the AVR, hopefully the AVR's A-D and D-A conversion is not used, and your analog source will go straight to the preamp stage. One way to be sure to bypass and A-D and D-A conversion would be to use the multichannel inputs on the AVR, as I'm pretty sure they bypass the digital domain altogether.

I've experimented and found that on my AVR, plugging my CD player into the L and R multichannel inputs sounds better than using a standard stereo input. This works nicely if you don't need/want bass management or any other processing of the CDP's output.

I personally eliminate my AVR altogether for 2-ch listening by using a separate preamp connected directly to my CDP and amps.

cbl117

adam2434 wrote:

I think that will depend on how you use the AVR. For example, if you're using bass management or a surround mode with an analog source, I think the AVR handles this in the digital domain, which means the AVR would do an A-D conversion, then a D-A conversion (using its DAC) prior to the analog preamp stage.

If you're using a "Pure" or "Direct" 2-ch mode in the AVR, hopefully the AVR's A-D and D-A conversion is not used, and your analog source will go straight to the preamp stage. One way to be sure to bypass and A-D and D-A conversion would be to use the multichannel inputs on the AVR, as I'm pretty sure they bypass the digital domain altogether.

I've experimented and found that on my AVR, plugging my CD player into the L and R multichannel inputs sounds better than using a standard stereo input. This works nicely if you don't need/want bass management or any other processing of the CDP's output.

I personally eliminate my AVR altogether for 2-ch listening by using a separate preamp connected directly to my CDP and amps.

I'm running the AVR in Stereo mode with surround off. For people with HK recievers it says CD/ ANALOG, then below that it says SURROUND OFF.

I liked your idea of plugging directly into my 6 Channel direct audio inputs. I just read in the manual under 6 CH direct, and it says:

"The 6 CH Direct input should be used when the SBR and SBL inputs are NOT in use and the source device has its own internal bass management system. This input passes the input from the source directly through to the volume control without any analog to digital conversion and it mutes the unused input jacks to prevent unwanted noise from interfering with the system."

I have my CDP connected using the CD analog inputs. Will switching to 6 ch direct improve system performance?

aaharvel

cbl117 wrote:

I have my CDP connected using the CD analog inputs. Will switching to 6 ch direct improve system performance?

don't use the 6ch. 8ch. direct unless you either have SACD or true full-range speakers.

adam2434

His signature says he's got LSi15's and is running a 2ch system, that's why I mentioned the multichannel inputs. It's worth a try. However, it may not be any better/diffferent if he can bypass all A-D and D-A conversion with the standard CD input.

Chris, what CDP do you have? One thing you may want to try is the digital output if your CDP has one. This would allow you to compare the DAC in the CDP vs. the DAC in your AVR. I have found that the DAC in my AVR sounds better than the DAC in my DVD player, but not as good as the DAC in my Sony ES CDP.

aaharvel

what Adam said. As odd as it may sound my 16 yr. old ES has better sounding DACS, though not much so than my receiver and MUCH better DACS than my DVD player.

cbl117

my CDP is an 11 year old sony. Its only got analog outs...

I have the CDP hooked up through the 6CH direct input now. Its seems similar to the CD input, but with all processing and tone controls bypassed.

Should I just hook the CDP into the CD input on my AVR and just manually turn off the processing and tone controls???

I'm confused about what component is the next to upgrade, the AVR or the Source??

Thanks for the help!

cbl117

aaharvel wrote:

don't use the 6ch. 8ch. direct unless you either have SACD or true full-range speakers.

I'm pretty sure lsi15s are full range speakers.

aaharvel

cbl117 wrote:

I'm pretty sure lsi15s are full range speakers.

i'm pretty sure they're not. 20hz -3db?
nope.

cbl117

well instead of being rude, maybe you could explain what that means. Or is your plan to keep everyone else ignorant...:rolleyes:

adam2434

If you didn't hear a difference with the multichannel inputs, then it doesn't matter which you use. The difference I heard was subtle.

I would definitely consider your LSi15s full range for all intents and purposes in 2-ch listening. Since you're using them in a 2-ch system without a sub, that's irrelevant anyway to the question of using multichannel or CD inputs on your AVR. In your situation, the LSi15s will get the same full frequency range from both inputs (assuming you have your fronts set to large in the AVR)

A dedicated 2-ch preamp and new CDP would both be an upgrade for you, but I'd have lean to the CDP first. Do you plan to stay with a 2-ch system, or eventually add equipment for surround sound? If you're staying 2-ch, there are options for a CDP upgrade and dedicated 2-ch preamp that won't break the bank and would be a nice sound improvement. I'm running an inexpensive Cambridge Audio preamp, and it was a significant improvement over my AVR as a preamp for 2-ch.

For example, you could sell your AVR and get a CDP like the Cambridge Audio 640 (link to Audio Advisor below) and a 2-ch preamp for a few hundred bucks - either used or maybe a new tube preamp like the Dodd ELP (if you don't need a remote control).

http://audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=CAMB640CS&product_name=Azur%20640C%20CD%20Player

cbl117

thanks adam.

I will be keeping my setup for strictly 2 channel listening. I'm thinking about selling the AVR and getting the following components...

CDP - Rotel 1072
Pre - Parasound P3

I've heard really good things about the rotel and parasound. I figured the P3 would go nicely with the Parasound A23 I have.

aaharvel

doobla!

aaharvel

cbl117 wrote:

well instead of being rude, maybe you could explain what that means. Or is your plan to keep everyone else ignorant...:rolleyes:

i wasn't being rude. i was stating a fact. the lsi15's frequency response does not go down to 20hz. ergo they do not have full frequency response ability.

"lower -3db limit: 30hz"
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/lsi15/

next time i'll draw it out for you in crayon; you know, so everyone else will be informed as well.

adam2434

cbl117 wrote:

I've heard really good things about the rotel and parasound. I figured the P3 would go nicely with the Parasound A23 I have.

Yes, those are nice pieces - go for it.

cbl117

aaharvel wrote:

"lower -3db limit: 30hz"

Does that mean at 30Hz there has been a -3db loss in signal intensity? I'm just curious what 3db limits mean.

aaharvel

-3db. is still considered a "flat response" (-3 to +3 db)

therefore, the lsi15 can go down to 30hz at -3db in a given situation.
at 0 db, or perfectly flat? it depends on placement I suppose. I'm guessing 35hz.
not exactly full range. A sub would still be required to get full audible impact. I would prob. set the sub at 40hz. or something like that.