Some initial thoughts after a few days with a 990

HBombToo

Excellent thread and Thanks.

jrlouie

danger boy wrote:

I’m also not used to having to scroll thru menu after menu to be able to adjust the subwoofer output.

Yep, I agree. I guess it is not quite so bad if you use the trim feature, you have to press Test, then SET twice and then scroll to the sub. But my last AVR you just pushed one button, it was nice.

Skynut

The sunfire I just bought has buttons on the remote to adjust the surrounds, center, and sub up or down. A seprate up and down button for each of these three settings.
On the otherhand the setup menu is one that you must scroll through and if you pause too long at one feature it goes away and you have to start from the beginning.

jrlouie

McLoki wrote:

I would love to hear your impressions of a similar test with the 990.

Michael

Okay. Took a little time today to do the pre-amp comparison. I used the Onkyo and 990, both going to the 7500. Since the Onkyo only has RCA pre-outs, I used the RCA's also on the 990. Then for grins I flipped the switch to use the balanced inputs. Unless I specifically note below the use of balanced connects, I used the RCA’s. Also the Onkyo only allows 80 Hz crossover, so I set it the same on the 990. I used an SPL meter to calibrate the Onkyo to match the output of the 990’s auto-config with microphone. I also used the SPL meter to try my best to match volume during tests.
For the most part, the biggest thing I noticed with the 990 which I have stated before, is the surrounds are much more apparent. I feel more like sound is emanating from everywhere. I felt engulfed in the effects. The Onkyo was quite admirable. It did sound great. I was surprised. That all being said, I was hampering the abilities of the 990 maybe when trying to match the settings of the Onkyo. The 990 just has more to tweak and blend a good sound into you speaker setup.
When using the RCA’s, there was quite a bit more noise. I’m a little concerned actually. I have been troubleshooting some transformer hum (you may have read my other thread), but due to me using the balanced connects I could never hear any problems coming from the speakers. When using the RCA’s, definitely a buzz was coming from the speakers.
Which brings me to flipping the switch to the balanced connects. That dropped the noise and made quiet passages amazing so that with dynamic passages, they were more jaw-dropping. I did watch this concert DVD and I watched this one song 3 times (one for each comparison) and I got chills each time. The last time with the balanced connects was the best.
The 990 did slightly out-do the Onkyo a couple of times with background details. Like for example, I could just slightly more easily hear a whistle from the crowd on that concert DVD. Or there is this part where the drummer hums backup vocals and I could just slightly more distinguish his voice from the lead singer’s.

Hope that helps, it’s about all my ears can hear

jrlouie

jrlouie wrote:

Yep, I agree. I guess it is not quite so bad if you use the trim feature, you have to press Test, then SET twice and then scroll to the sub. But my last AVR you just pushed one button, it was nice.

Just wanted to state something I noticed subsequent to this comment I made. It is odd that if you have the 990 using stereo analog-in, speakers small, upsample, the sub is on. But if you push Test and then SET twice, the subwoofer isn't a speaker you can scroll to, to adjust its level.
Weird.

McLoki

Jrlouie,

Thanks for the additional test. It sounds like you are a little happier with your 979 that I am with my 777, but it is pretty close to what I remember when I put the Rotel in place. The soundfield was everywhere, not just 5 speakers. The main thing I was dissapointed in with the 777 was how much more real all the sounds were with the Rotel. I assume that the 990 is similar in this case. (or your 979 is just much better than the 777) One thing that I am sure made a difference, was we were playing a DTS track wich usually sounds worse than DD on the 777.

It is interesting that the balanced connections seem to work better in your situation. (I have been trying to read if they are worth using or not, and like all upgrades - some say yes, some say no) Since my amp will take balanced inputs, I will have to put the cables on my short list of things to try. Where did you purchase your XLR's at?

What are your normal crossover points at for the 990? (40hz for the 15's, 60hz for the rest of the speakers?)

Thanks again - it certainly sounds like the 990 should be on my short list of processors to purchase.

Michael

jrlouie

McLoki wrote:

Jrlouie,
It is interesting that the balanced connections seem to work better in your situation. (I have been trying to read if they are worth using or not, and like all upgrades - some say yes, some say no) Since my amp will take balanced inputs, I will have to put the cables on my short list of things to try. Where did you purchase your XLR's at?

I may have other issues lurking behind them which I might eventually figure out, but definitely less noise with the XLR's. I just went ahead and purchased the Outlaw XLR's when I bought the 990/7500.

McLoki wrote:

What are your normal crossover points at for the 990? (40hz for the 15's, 60hz for the rest of the speakers?)

Excellent guess, right on the money. Although, I currently have the 15's set to large which bypasses the crossover points. I only have it like this because I like the ease of flipping to bypass effectively turning off the sub. If you don't have them set to large, a signal always goes to the sub. I'm anxious to see what their firmware update does to this.

cfrizz

NIce comparitive write up. Thanks.

Holydoc

Yes thank you so much for the review. It has helped me to quench my upgraditis I was having lately with my receiver. I was wondering if I may be missing something not having the OUTLAW Pre-out. From your reviews, I at least got the impression that, though the OUTLAW may be better, it is not enough of an upgrade to warrant spending the money at this time.

Now if I can stop thinking about the AVP-700. *sigh* You guys are going to make me broke!

*** Notice how I quickly blamed it on you? ***

McLoki

jrlouie wrote:

If you don't have them set to large, a signal always goes to the sub. I'm anxious to see what their firmware update does to this.

I have heard quite a bit about this bass issue with the 990. My understanding is that in bypass mode a full range signal is sent to the sub. If you use normal stereo or PLIIx (what I would normally use for radio) this does not happen (sends what you would expect to the sub based on crossover points). Is my understanding correct?

Thanks,

Michael

cfrizz

I was in the same boat as Holydoc! Now I can rest easy knowing that I will NOT be making a huge improvement by going to all out separates!

Holydoc wrote:

Yes thank you so much for the review. It has helped me to quench my upgraditis I was having lately with my receiver. I was wondering if I may be missing something not having the OUTLAW Pre-out. From your reviews, I at least got the impression that, though the OUTLAW may be better, it is not enough of an upgrade to warrant spending the money at this time.

Now if I can stop thinking about the AVP-700. *sigh* You guys are going to make me broke!

*** Notice how I quickly blamed it on you? ***

jrlouie

Yeah, I get confused about all the bass management stuff. I think it is actually performing as designed, it's just the design most people don't like
I think it has something to do with 2-channel analog-in, bypass with sub set to "Sub+L/R", it sends a full range signal to the sub, assuming the user will enable the crossover on their sub. Sort of makes sense, taking all bass management out of the mix. But I would also argue there just shouldn't be anything sent to the sub. I actually hope they make that change.
I think there are some other points, but I have a hard time accumulating and sorting everything out. Really, the Outlaw forum is probably best for answers.
Anyway, I want to keep it, and wait for the firmware update.
http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/34/t/000437.html

danger boy

i have my sub set to sub on + L&R the bass blends better that way to me.

I have all my crossovers set to 60. is that bad? fronts are Monitor 7's, center is CS400i and surrounds are FX/300i's. All speakers set to large.

Last night I got out the SPL meter and properly set up the levels for all speakers. sounds better. The automatic set up set all levels to 0, that was odd. Although it did correctly set the distance/delay for all the speakers.

I'm still blown away by the sound quality of CD's. I've tried all modes.. from stereo to bypass to upconversion. I don't hear much difference between all three. although in bypass i think it does bypass the subwoofer. I'm still using analog cables from the CDP to the Outlaw. Some time this week I hope to hook up an Toslink cable. See if it makes any difference utilizing the other DAC's.

jrlouie

I think, if you set all your speakers to large, none of the crossovers are being used. It would make more sense to clear the crossover setting after setting a speaker to large to more clearly indicate to the user that the crossover is not being used. Just a thought. But anyway, if you want to use the crossovers, set those speakers to small, even if your crossover setting is 40hz or 60hz.
With your mains set to large, bypass will bypass the sub. There's a handy little diagram on the front display of the 990 I like. It'll light up which speakers are currently being sent a signal.
I think if you change your mains to small and set them to 60hz, when listening to 2 channel analog in and if you use bypass, then a signal goes to the sub. In fact, it will be a full range signal assuming the user will turn on their active crossover on the sub. It takes a left channel signal and blends it with the right channel to a single mono signal and passes this full range signal to the sub. This is something they're looking into for the firmware update. I think it is acting as designed, but they're just rethinking the design They haven't made any formal statement as to what will or will not be changed.