Hdcd?

jayman_1975

is anyone very familiar with HDCD?. If i have a reciever that has it, do i also need to get a dvd or cd player that has it as well in order to benifit at all from this feature? Also. this Denon Link thing, anyone know if it's worth while getting the DVD player that supports it?, my reciever has it but don't know how much better sound you get with it vs optical cable. Maybe the difference wouldn't be noticable anyhow as i am only using monitor series speakers. Any thoughts?

*Seby*-Polk-

I never heard...do you have any link of that HDCD ???

jayman_1975

try having a look at this
http://www.hitbutiken.com/hdcd/?p=hdcd

heiney9

HDCD was one of the first higer resolution formats to appear I'd say around 1995 (don't quote me on that). Originally developed my Pacific Micronics, it used an additonal chipset inline with the DA section of a cdp, stand alone DAC, and apparently some AVR's. There are titles available in HDCD, some say it on the liner notes some don't. I don't think anything new has been released in HDCD. It is of benefit, but certainly not worth seeking out and paying top dollar for. The nice thing is you can play regualr cds in an HDCD unit and it has no adverse affect.

The technology has since been bought by Microsoft and I have no idea what their plans are for it.

Here's a link to get you started. Typical Google search shows some results

http://timefordvd.com/ref/HDCD.shtml

H9

heiney9

What the hell....here's more info. See you didn't even have to use Google

HDCD (High Definition Compatible Digital) is a digital encoding and decoding process for compact disc and DVD audio recording. The HDCD process manages to encode 20 bits of audio information into a conventional CD 16-bit channel, yielding a greater dynamic range and a more true-to-life sound when decoded. HDCD was developed by Keith Johnson and Pflash Pflaumer between 1986 and 1991, and made publicly available in 1995. Johnson and Pflaumer went on to found Pacific Microsonics, which was later acquired by Microsoft. Since 1995, more than 5,000 HDCD recordings have been released and more than 175 of those have been nominated for GRAMMY awards. An article in Wired Magazine hailed HDCD technology as "the greatest single advance in digital reproduction to date."

Audio chip manufacturers including Motorola, Sanyo, and Zoran have developed HDCD chips for audio products, such as CD and DVD players and receivers. HDCD-encoded media will play on machines that don't have the chip, and HDCD-equipped machines can play traditionally recorded media. Because the decoder chips include a high-precision digital filter, HDCD-equipped players will improve audio quality for even traditionally recorded CDs and DVDs. Conversely, because of the recording process, HDCD-encoded media will also sound better than traditionally CDs and DVDs on players that don't have the HDCD chip. Nevertheless, the best audio quality is yielded by HDCD-encoded media on an HDCD-equipped player.

Danny Tse

jayman_1975 wrote:

is anyone very familiar with HDCD?. If i have a reciever that has it, do i also need to get a dvd or cd player that has it as well in order to benifit at all from this feature? Also. this Denon Link thing, anyone know if it's worth while getting the DVD player that supports it?, my reciever has it but don't know how much better sound you get with it vs optical cable. Maybe the difference wouldn't be noticable anyhow as i am only using monitor series speakers. Any thoughts?

If you have a receiver that can decode HDCD, just run a digital connection from the DVD player or CD player to the receiver and the receiver will do the HDCD decoding.

Denon-Link? That's a digital connection to pass along hi-rez signal, as in SACD and DVD-A, using one single cable. That can also be done with HDMI v1.2.

HDCD-encoded CDs are still being released. On some hybrid SACDs, the CD layer can also be HDCD-encoded. However, whether a disc is HDCD-encoded or not is often not marked on the packaging or the disc....and you won't know until you put the disc into a HDCD-capable player. Or use Windows Media Player V.9 and up to play the disc.

Here's a ongoing thread at head-fi.org that tries to identifies HDCD-encoded discs that weren't posted at the now-abandoned HDCD.com website.

billbillw

To answer one of your questions (if it wasn't clear yet), you don't need anything except a CD or DVD with digital output. In otherwords, use the digital coax or toslink to connect and let the receiver do the decoding. It will automatically detect an HDCD disc and start decoding it. It is a noticable improvement on discs that are decoded.

danger boy

HDCD has been around for years... google it. and you should find lots of good explanations of it.

danger boy

so to get HDCD you need an HDCD player right? If your receiver has a HDCD chip in it.. it will not decode it right? Since the decoding takes place in the player, not the receiver? ok

steveinaz

Disregard...

heiney9

danger boy wrote:

so to get HDCD you need an HDCD player right? If your receiver has a HDCD chip in it.. it will not decode it right? Since the decoding takes place in the player, not the receiver? ok

No, apparently some AVR's with DAC's in them also have the HDCD chipset as well. Pacific Micronics invented the HDCD algorythm and others developed their own later on. HDCD decoding is part of the DA process so anything that have DAC's can potentially have HDCD decoding. It's an additional chipset in addition to a high quality digital filter.

H9

heiney9

DB, did ya read post #5 . You have to route the digital signal via the digi output of your player thru the AVR DAC to get HDCD decoding from an AVR that has HDCD capability

H9

danger boy

ok it doesn't make sense. but i got it now. thanks.

jayman_1975

"Denon-Link? That's a digital connection to pass along hi-rez signal, as in SACD and DVD-A, using one single cable. That can also be done with HDMI v1.2."
Ok i think i have the HDCD figured out..now is it worth buying a DVD player that has the denon link to match up with my Denon reciever. Will this give me better sound than a good fiber optic cable?

heiney9

danger boy wrote:

ok it doesn't make sense. but i got it now. thanks.

Why? Maybe if I know where your confusion is I can try to make it clearer.

H9

jayman_1975

i'm looking to put a nice dvd player with my Denon 3805...but i dunno how much i should spend(looking to match). I would like to get the best possible picture but not sure how far up the model line i have to go to get that but not chase a bunch of other feature that will not be doing me much (ie. HDCD and Denon link). I have a 42in sony grand vega HD so i wanna put the best signal to it i can as far as DVD goes. I do have HD satelite as well so maybe i'll be dissapointed in pic quality no matter which DVD player i get.

Toxis

get the denon 3910. Denon link sounds great! But if that's out of the budget, the 2910 sounds every bit as good IMO but you just have to use the 6ch analog cables out to get SACD/DVDa playback. Personally, I have the 3805 and the 2910 and only use the 6ch out. I disconnected my digital coax because I felt the processor in the 2910 sounds better than the 3805 anyhow.

Early B.

Does anyone know if there is a replacement (i.e., upgrade) for the Burr Brown 1732 DAC with HDCD decoding? Since this DAC debuted in 1998-99, I was wondering if it had been updated yet.

heiney9

Early B. wrote:

Does anyone know if there is a replacement (i.e., upgrade) for the Burr Brown 1732 DAC with HDCD decoding? Since this DAC debuted in 1998-99, I was wondering if it had been updated yet.

Can't say I've heard of that designation. The original Burr Brown DAC w/ HDCD was the PCM 1702. It appears Burr Brown was aquired by Texas Instruments and I've been poking around the site and don't see a PCM 1732 on their list. Best I can find....take a look for yourself and see if you can get more info.

Ironically the 1702 is the only single channel chip they show, all the rest are 2 channel or multi-channel on one chip (not ideal). Must be more info somewhere because I know for a fact they still produce the PCM-63K. Yep I see the PCM-1732 in the Stereophile review

http://focus.ti.com/paramsearch/docs/parametricsearch.tsp?startIdx=1&endIdx=10&familyAliasId=1100582&familyId=582&uiTemplateId=NODE_STRY_PGE_T&sectionId=null&tabId=null&totalCount=68&showAdditionalParameters=no&lc=3000166&lc=3000195&lc=2000084&lc=2000480&lc=2000305&lc=2300088&lc=2200348&lc=2000089&lc=2001192&lc=2000494&lc=2001130&compare=yes&download=yes&sort=yes&customize=yes&paramResults=yes&paramCriteria=yes&familyTree=yes&military=no&baSystem=yes&paramTable=no&sortOption=&sortMode=&searchPaths=1100582&pageId=undefined&startIdx=1&endIdx=10&templateId=0&navigationId=0&family=analog&paramTable=no&military=no&ul=DSD1796&ul=PCM1600&ul=PCM1602&ul=PCM1602A&ul=PCM1604&ul=PCM1606&ul=PCM1608&ul=PCM1609A&ul=PCM1680&ul=PCM1702&&uiTemplateId=NODE_STRY_PGE_T&sectionId=null&tabId=null#rt

heiney9

Here's yet another source of HDCD info. It's an older .pdf but it may help explain things a little better, lots of pics

heiney9

Here are data sheets for various Burr Brown DAC chipsets. EarlyB you may find what you are looking for in here.

H9

http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/burrbrown/35/

heiney9

It appears after looking at the data sheet for both the PCM 1702 and PCM 1732 that the latter had the HDCD decoder built into the chip. The former was strictly a single channel DA chip and the Pacific Micronics PDM-100 was a seperate chip along with the HQ digital filter needed. It also appears the PCM-1732 is as far as they went with HDCD. Looking at all the data sheets for DA chips after that, no more have an HDCD designation.

H9