Flea Market

heiney9

Is it just me or does it seem that since the rules have changed, more mice have come out of their hole? Now that they don't fear retribution from established members, it seems every Tom, Dick & Harry are hawking their goods. Of course I could be wrong. I'm sure no response will let them move on their way. Who knows maybe I'm looking too hard into it. I'd hate to see it become a place where people only join to hawk their goods. Sure, if it's a Polk product it's a little more interesting. Oh well it's a Flea Market and the last time I was at a flea market they sold everything, including the kitchen sink.

Just thinking out loud here people.

H9

P.s. I know beating a dead horse ......I think I saw it twitch!

jdhdiggs

I think I agree with you. My confidence in it has gone WAY down. The only people I really comfotable dealing with are the 1,000+ post club or someone I've done business with before. All in all it feels very sketchy to me.

janmike

Totally agree as well. There are some members whose posts are under 1,000 that are reputable.

criverajr

I think it is working OK, just don't respond and they go away quickly, I just got tired of hearing the same old tune, you suck, your gear sucks, we look at for one another here, I hate Bose stuff. leave it alone and it will dry up and go away.

CRj

Demiurge

criverajr wrote:

I think it is working OK, just don't respond and they go away quickly, I just got tired of hearing the same old tune, you suck, your gear sucks, we look at for one another here, I hate Bose stuff. leave it alone and it will dry up and go away.

CRj

May be true, but eventually it becomes completely saturated with that type of stuff and nobody else has incentive to post their wares. Do you want to let your gear go to some guy who has ten posts and won't ever come back again? Why not go to EBay and make money on it then? It loses the community feel of giving back to those who gave to you. I think that's one of the main reasons people like the way it was. It had it's flaws, but everything does. I bought some of my speakers here, and in time I will give some of them back for way less than I paid for them.

criverajr

I have seen alot of stuff even from estalished members go untouched, people will buy what they want and spend accordingly. I have also seen members post stuff and get snatched up instantly, so to me it works out, if you don't want to sell it here no one is forcing people to sell it here. I have sold a few things on Audiogon and 99% of the time you set a price and someone will try to haggle you down, so it works out the same, most of the stuff that is firm pricing sits around for awhile anyway. Again no responses no sales. just my .02 worth.

CRj

reeltrouble1

It stinks.

The header says "Anything" for sale so that is what you get. Yes, the Club Polk feel is pretty much gone for me. I saw one post where the seller said something like yes, his price may be high or thats a place to start now lets negotiate and so on, another no pics unless your interested, another no pics and send me your offer. I was just used to great deals for polkies where the price was already low, heck, some would not even sell to a newb, just to keep the gear in the "family" so to speak. I know had to wait my turn for some SDA off the board when I first came aboard this place. Remember, "line forms to the left". When the newbs got put under the light with the questions there was a sense of community like we were all questioning and getting answered in most cases, that is what your missing, at least those that dont like the way it is.

A few members seem to like it so there you go. There is truth in the ignore it and it will go away, just going to take some time to get used to I guess.

RT1

scottnbnj

oh brother. i just don't see what's so difficult about sending 36,362 im's when you know something is wrong with a deal so everyone knows what's up.

)

Demiurge

Like I said, it's not so much what's being sold, but rather what won't be. There are quite a few people who might not feel comfortable putting their stuff anymore. Are there going to be battles for members who refuse to sell to some people? There's some good stuff up there right now, but as soon as there are a few problems I think it may dry up even more.

markmarc

Sure, there are an ever increasing number of members who signup and rarely participate. But, everytime a regular makes a post dealing with a sad/difficult issue, the support for them is amazing.

Just my two-cents.

criverajr

I understand all points but the sense of community was getting out of hand in my opinion, when a newbie had something we thought was worthless he got the shaft and beaten to ****, when the newbie had something of interest we let his newness ride, end justifing the mean I guess. One question with or without the rules show me ten post in the last year where someone got really screwed over here, I really can't find to many. I saw a newbie try to buy something face to face with cash willing to pick the item up at the seller house and he still got **** from the establishment, but no other polk "family, community member" stepped up to buy the item, that is total BS.

CRj

Demiurge

Criverajr -

I am with you 100% that there were lots of posts that got out of hand that had to do with new folks. There's a respectful way to show someone what the rules are, and then there's the wrong way. Cracking jokes and making someone feel unwelcome isn't the way to start out. If they don't get it after the rules are presented to them -- have at it. Like I said, there are flaws to any system, but the air was let out of the proverbial tires on the Flea Market as it once was.

I would also say that in regards to people getting screwed on stuff -- that no it didn't happen all that often. I think that the reason it didn't happen is because people were watching the Flea Market like a mother bear over her cubs. There have been some events with Scott Trigg (before my time), and others, but those instances were rare.

The way things are now, I doubt that people will be getting shafted on sales much as well. It'll be for completely different reasons, however. I think now it will be for the reason that many people will be more wary of selling their goods at a more than reasonable price. Why? Well, why sell for a loss or no profit when you can make money on EBay? If the community feel is lost and we get more people just showing up to sell speakers at EBay prices...there's no reason to use it anymore. The Flea Market had a built in safety net that it doesn't really have anymore. EBay is now a much safer place to buy stuff. That way if you get stiffed on something you can recover some or all of your money.

I also reckognize the postion that Polk (Justin) was put in over this. He probably got a lot of PMs or Emails from people who were getting crapped on for trying to sell their stuff. As a company they have a reputation to uphold, hence the new rules. The bottom line is that the rules the way they are completely change the function of the Flea Market, and it does so in a way that people who have spent years here don't want.

What I would like to know is this -- Would it be out of line for an established member of the board with oh....100+ quality and interactive posts with the rest of the community to deny a sale or a 'deal' to someone with like 10 posts who is just sniffing around for a hot deal? Like....what's the incentive for me to sell my reciever (for example) for like $50 here now if I am going to have 10 replies from guys who have been here less than a month? Can I ignore them and sell to someone I consider 'established'?

I realize everyone was new here, but I know that when I showed up because my friend Phuz got me into Polk Audio....I didn't come here and try jumping in on the Flea Market. I think that's kind of something you earn the right to get involved in after you get a little bit of trust built up. There isn't one established member of the board I wouldn't sell to or buy from -- despite personal differences. I just have the confidence that they're all pretty good and honest people. The guy who showed up this month? I have no idea.

The Flea Market is no longer minimal risk.

(Sorry for the long post, but I just needed to get that all out there.)

criverajr

demiurge,

I hear ya but truth be told I did a search on the established member hood of the forum, if you look at what we may call established members with let say 500 post, their arn't that many, but the ones who participate do it well. I have no problem with the way it was, but I saw instances where 2 established members carried there fighting to just about every post including the FM just because. I also saw a newbie come on the FM with some SDA for sale, he was told to get pics up, state a price, and all the other happy horseshit we put them through, he jumped through all the hoops, got pics up, lowered his price, offered an in-house demo, and took all the other comments from the established members, but nobody brought his speakers, was it worth it to take the BS, if you were a newbie would you stick around?, if we kept the old ways we would always be selling the same gear to ourselves, no fun I say.

heiney9

Just to make a point and not slam any noob. But it looks like ruffjustice is going to town in the FM. In the olden days he'd have been run outta here or atleast given an opinion about how to sell effectively and what our little FM was all about. Sure, he probably won't sell anything, but he's got 7 of the top 20 or posts. Just imagine if 20 new members each did what ruffjustice is doing. It would create pages and pages of crap listings. The equipment might be good, but the intent/philosophy has completely changed.

Demi, you made some great points. And if nothing changes atleast we've had some productive discussion about it. The FM of the past is dying, no more hooking up a Polkie with a good deal or keeping it in the family or looking out for forum crashers. It's a free for all now.

H9

EDIT: I was really talking about Steve4459, but Ruffjustice has a few as well.

Demiurge

Criverajr -

What you're saying is absolutely true. I didn't disagree with you there, but I am taking it further than just looking at the negative of what was. I don't think that the bad outweighed the good.

I believe that Polk should have stepped in and changed some things, which they did. People aren't reacting negatively to rules in general, but to what the rules acutally are. Will everyone be happy? No, but it's safe to say that the bulk of the active members of the board aren't too happy with them. I know you can ban people from these style boards for periods of time, and you can notify them of the ban. Nobody should be above a tempory ban from here if they got way out of hand with the name calling. I didn't like it either, and I know that I probably even contibuted to it once in a while when a poster tripped my trigger.

What exactly is established is a subjective term, but I can search a guys posts and get a decent feel. The less time they have spent here the greater the risk. Still, while the better part of us would like to believe that everyone is a good and honest person....reality shows us that isn't always the case. Especially when we're just text on a screen to some. If you're new I would avoid the Flea Market like the plague until you had some interaction under your belt.

....and no...I don't think that should be a rule. We should use discretion, but I wouldn't personally buy from or sell to anyone I hadn't paid a little bit of attention to around here.

VR3

If you dont want to sell to a newbie, so be it...

Its not like Polk can tell you what to do with YOUR gear...

Just ignore them.

madmax

I have sold a lot of stuff to newbies and they have always given me a good "thanks" and you could tell they appreciated the stuff. I guess I can see the point that if I gave a super good price to someone I would be annoyed if their only purpose at purchase time was to turn it around for a profit. Of course once you buy something it belongs to you and personally I don't mind them getting the real worth out of it after they use it and decide to move on to better things.
madmax

Demiurge

Well, I could go on and on and beleaguer the point some more, but it would be counter productive. I have said my piece on this, and I think the bulk of it is what most active members of the forum feel about it. I do think talking about it in a way that would pique someones interest to change a few things would be advantageous. That would be to suggest that any of this was actually ever up for discussion in the first place....

fgr41

Let me give a brief history of my time here. I became a memeber about 3 yrs ago when I first bought a pair of towers from CC. I found the forum and was amazed at how you all took time to answer questions and explain things to noobs like myself. I then tried to do the same and contribute what I could.

I was able to buy and sell many things on the FM only because someone trusted me and I them. They gave me their trust and I returned it. For that I am very thankful. I have seen some great deals come around on the FM, and I have seen some not so good deals. Fact is no matter what I put up for sale I always negotiated a price with the person taking into account factors such as their history here at the forum, the price of the item etc... I don't think I ever sold an item for what I was asking for it, not because my prices were outragous but I think people are use to making deals.

I recently posted a Sony SAWM500 for sale in the FM. I priced the sub at my local big name stores, the price was over $200. I priced it online, prices ranged from 130 to over 200. Was I looking to take a loss on the sub, no way. Was I looking to double what I paid for it, no. I was looking to turn the sub for a little over what I paid. I priced it knowing my asking price would not stand. If I priced it at what I wanted/needed for the sub I felt I would end up selling it for less, and if I didn't move on the price people on the forum would be pissed because I wasn't willing to cut them a deal.

Now comes the actual post for the sale. I got a reply from a vet which was not flattering regarding my post. His comments were to the effect that I was asking what joe shmoe could pay at their local store. I double checked and according to my local stores my price was aprox $50 cheaper and I was willing to negotiate still more. I tried to respond to his post in a mature fashion and only met with smart **** remarks. I may not be a 1000+ poster but I feel I have been here long enough and have done business with enough of you that I felt his comments were not appropriate.

The powers that be took the matter into their hands and removed the negative posts from my listing. The next time I looked at the post there was another post from the same individual who was just removed from the thread. There was enough energy in the air regarding the matter that I asked to have the entire post wiped, why fule the fire. I am sure the admin didn't WANT to have to resort to this action but I think he had to in order to save face and show the new rules were not something to read and ignore.

I do not hold any ill will towards the individual who made the comments on my thread. I have been known to be a smart **** at times, heck most of the board is full of smart ****'s. I felt it was better to have the whole thing removed, pointing no fingers at anyone, and simply starting over.

Long story even longer: I, being a member for a few years and someone who found this forum to be very helpful and educational, felt comments that were made regarding my sale were not appropriate. I priced the sub to what I felt was a bit on the high side, but not over the top, knowing I would move on the price if simply asked. If someone wanted the sub they would have sent me a PM and we could have worked out a deal. If they weren't sure they could have done a 5second search on google to find the going prices.

I think the moral is, if you don't want it or feel it isn't a good deal leave the post alone. If the poster follows the forum rules listing a price and providing pics it's up the the reader to decide if the item is worth investigating. If its not a deal or noone is interested it won't sell. If someone comes along and is willing to show legit interest let the seller and that person work out a deal.

Have things changed with the FM, yeah things always change. Are you going to be able to find a killer deal there, maybe. Are you going to find things for sale that you have no interest in, YES. Are there going to be people who just join the board to try and sell things, YES. Is this something new, NO. So what has changed, there are more and more people here every week. It's not the quiet little place it use to be. Use common sence and good judgement when dealing with others. Treat others here as you expect to be treated, with caution but also with respect and lets try and have some FUN doing it.

Dennis Gardner

I think that basically the sky is falling for those that want to be in control. Time will settle the issues for the FM, and most all will buy and sell what they feel is warranted. The rest will go elsewhere which they should.

At least we didn't go the "pay to sell" route that AK did. It killed their market.

My final comment would be that I have always found it poor management to punish the masses for the problems of a few. Why couldn't the vial posts have been removed from the old FM threads as they cropped up. I think we are all smart enough to realize that if our post disappears we were out of line.

joeparaski

I joined last December and have 136 posts. When I was looking to replace my speakers I had no idea what I wanted and searched e-bay for "something". The big SRS caught my attention in a big way and I knew I just had to have a pair. Searching for information brought me to this forum where, coincidentally, HTrookie was selling a pair at the time. There was resistance to my intended purchase and I almost didn't get them. I guess some people would assume that I would have just bought them and then disappear. Instead, I became a POLK nut and read the forum every day. Am I still a newbie?

dorokusai

No, you're a Polkster

joeparaski

WOW....I just won the bid on e-bay for a BOSE 1801 amplifier. This is an old amplifier that was seriously underated at 250 watts per channel. I have a friend that collects amplifiers and he told me that I should jump on one if I ever had the chance. This monster weighs 80 pounds and apparently can kick some serious ****.

TroyD

Just my opinion....much ado about nothing. At least to the extent that I don't see any point in expending a lot of words as it won't change anything.

BDT

mrbigbluelight

I totally agree with the poster who stated that you can pick and choose who you sell your wares to.

If someone complains then that pretty much sums up their intention on the forum, ie, farming for deals.

Think of it as sort of a truth detector. A person comes knocking at your door, and from all initial appearances, they appear to be considerate and well-mannered. When you choose not to contribute to their "charity" (the "I want what I want when I want it for cheap Foundation"), then they turn surly, nasty, and reveal their true colors.

And all it cost you was a little of your time to bring out the truth.

A previous poster mentioned buying some R15's at CC and starting on the road to Polkville.
Well, mine started on Fry's (Outpost.com) with a pair of R30's.
Continued with some Monitor 40's linked off of bensbargains.net
The "disease" continued with a CS2 center channel off of Ebay.

And, thanks to my son using my Ebay account, we have a pair of Monitor 30's currently in limbo, bouncing around in Irving, Texas, trying to find their way "home".

Found the Forum while registering my speakers.
Thanks to you SOBS, I'm afraid I've become addicted.
To which I say:

"Thanks".

So, put up with us newbies, cringe as needed as we post about stripping stranded wire for speaker hookups, buying at Circuit City, and other lower rung ladder operation.

But be careful: we'll sneak up on you before you know it.

jdhdiggs

I agree with Demi and BDT 100%

Here's my biggest problem, established memeber put everything for sale in a single post giving more room for all listing. The newbie "E-bay" type listings are one per item So now, if Doro decides to sell his BBQ amp for $500, the forum as a whole has about 15 minutes to act on it before it gets pushed to the second page by some guy pushing adds for everything he managed to get out of a warehouse somewhere, that no one here will buy, or is even interested in.

Tour2ma

fgr41 wrote:

I priced the sub to what I felt was a bit on the high side, but not over the top, knowing I would move on the price if simply asked.

In other words you determined the fair price and then asked fellow CP'ers for more than you would take... :rolleyes:

Now for the "smart-****" comments...

1. Attaboy
2. Just the sprit we are looking for.
3. Well done.

brettw22

That's what I was thinking as well Tour......not that it's as blantantly intentional as that sounded, but if you want a specific dollar amount, put a "FIRM" mention in your thread. If you want people to bid and thrash about because they're chomping at the bit for your item, haul it to Ebay and pay for that show.

Demi, so we can all blame Phuz for you being here, huh?

Max, when did you ever give someone a "super good deal?"

Demiurge

brettw22 wrote:

Demi, so we can all blame Phuz for you being here, huh?

Yes, all blame goes to him. I was just going to buy the speakers, and then he tells me to come here.

madmax

brettw22 wrote:

Max, when did you ever give someone a "super good deal?"

Many times my friend, many times...
madmax

Tour2ma

So this is what it's come to? brett and Demi joking with each other? Can the second coming be far behind?

Agree, brett... fgr41's is not a major example of a FM transgression by any stretch, but it is not a shining example of the spirit of CP.

fgr41,
I mean it. No major flame intended.

As for some of the other points made here and in reply to Justin's "Before you..." thread...

I will agree that replies have gotten out of hand in some threads. Further, I will admit to posting some over-the-top replies myself, e.g., when a one-post wonder bags a highly sought after item or posts a WTB for the same. But I can never be accused of doing it for any reason other than love of the Club.

As for all this crap about PM'ing or, even more ridiculously, starting a new thread to waive members off of a bad deal, let alone a potential rip-off... that's kinda hard to do with PM'ing offers the offiically endorsed mode of operation.

So I'll do what I have done, albeit more tactfully at all times, and if as a result I get banned from the FM, I'll just make more money elsewhere.

When I do FM, I will:

• do it right, i.e., pics, firm price;
• set a time frame for interested parties to post their intent (none of this "definitely maybe" stuff) to buy and/or comments, good, bad or otherwise; and
• sell to the member expressing interest first, but in ranges of Club investment, i.e., number of posts.

Ranges might be >10k, 7.5-10k, 5-7.5k, etc. So Russ and Sid have first shot, and we go from there...

Time does NOT make you invested; posts do...