polk speakers

heXtant

hey yall. question. i got the polk mmc690's runnin in my front doors now, and i have to pick between the polk mmc650 2 way speakers or polk mmc5250 component speakers for the back.
powered by the polk c400.4
which is better for the back, the 5250's or the 650's?
i know that the 5250's sound better, but i want to know what you guys think would sound better. which are louder of the two? which have more bass? ect ect.

thanks

MacLeod

Neither, rear speakers only screw up imaging and detail.

But if youre set on rear speakers, just get whatever fits. Neither will have much bass and theyll both be about the same on midrange and high frequencies.

I wouldnt get components for the back since there is no real reason to do any creative aiming with the tweeters. Stick to coaxials.

neomagus00

agreed - if you must use rears, go with coaxes

AustinKP

it's really all up to personal listening preferences. I used to have dB650's in the rear, but eventually sold them because I found that I usually turned them off for better imaging. If you feel like something is missing without sound in the rear, feel free to put them in.

SportsFan

OK, I give: What is meant by "imaging"?

Actually, I can't "imagine" NOT owning rear speakers in my situation. Just try owning a Honda Accord, and NOT using rear speakers If you've got the standard 4 speaker set-up that comes from the factory, and planning to live off of the front door speakers (which are located near your FEET!), I think most people would soon find out that those rears located right at ear level are a very, VERY welcomed addition

Red230SX

In a correct instalation where you have a reasonably good mounting position
for the front speakers and you have the ability to adjust time alignment and
acurately equalize the in-cabin frequency response what you wind up with is
ideal imaging (under ideal circumstances).

What is imaging?

Close your eyes and just "Listen" to the music. Can you hear where the
drummer was on stage? How about the lead guitarist? how about the vocalists?

In a truly great setup you can actually "hear" how deep on stage, how close
on stage and where the artists were situated left to right.

I can hear it in my home audio 2 channel rig, and likewise on my boat I can
hear it too! (I love this adjustable Time Alignment !!!)

Red230SX

And what rear speakers do for the imaging is that they usually "smear" the
sound. They cause the placement of instruments and people to become less
pronounced. Good head units will allow you to toggle between where people
are situated in a vehicle. I can, for example select Front Right, Front Left,
Both Front, or all (all seats) with my Pioneer DEHP9600MP head unit.

AustinKP

Like Red said, Imaging is being able to close your eyes, and see where the musicians are. If you have speakers in the rear playing the same thing as the speakers in the front, that throws off the image. Excepting 5.1 DVD's, all the music you'll listen to is recorded in stereo. (on two channels: left and right)

Thus, you only need two speakers, or sets of speakers, i.e. left and right woofer/tweeter combo. Subwoofers are just extensions of the lower frequencies of those channels.

Red230SX

Sub Woofers play frequencies from 150Hz and lower, these frequencies are
considered to be "Omni-directional" meaning that the Human Ear/Brain can not
distinguish the direction from which the sound is eminating from. Of course the
lower the frequency the better this works.

Anything from about 150Hz and up becomes directional (point source) sound
and the brain can perceive the direction from which these sounds come from.

Stereo recordings are a mix of the left and right channels to give the perception
of a sound field that stretches seamlessly from left to right and has some
peripheral coverage as well.

Any of the multi channel recordings are properly mixed so that only sounds
that were picked up via rear channel microphones will be played in the rear
(clapping at a live concert for example).

It's all a matter of Pshycoacoustics, that's what devices like the Blows 3...2..1
system pseudo-work.. You can indeed trick the brain into thinking it hears
things from directions that it really did not hear. But it will never be as accurate
as having the real deal, full mixed surround channels.

AustinKP

Red230SX wrote:

Anything from about 150Hz and up becomes directional (point source) sound and the brain can perceive the direction from which these sounds come from.

It's actually closer to 60Hz. It's quite easy to hear the direction from which sounds 80Hz+ are coming. Get some test tones and try it.

Red230SX

Austin,

I wasn't 100% sure what the cutoff range was, but it will vary slightly from
person to person.

PoweredByDodge

you're not going to get much imaging with 6x9's in your goddamn doors.

yes, rear speakers throw off stage, blah blah blah... but what kind of car is the guy building... i mean keep it in perspective.

if someone is just running coax's up front, chances are that they will both want and need rear speakers to make the car sound decent

Red230SX

PoweredByDodge wrote:

you're not going to get much imaging with 6x9's in your goddamn doors.

yes, rear speakers throw off stage, blah blah blah... but what kind of car is the guy building... i mean keep it in perspective.

if someone is just running coax's up front, chances are that they will both want and need rear speakers to make the car sound decent

I never said NOT to install rear speakers There are times where you are not
critically listening and you just want all around sound.. Hell some people have
never even heard a properly imaged system nor do they care...

If all I was worried about was just imaging I would have only went wit two
speakers in my boat... But I wanted to be able to rock out anywhere on the
boat in the water... So I went with four... If I want imaging my Pio has a
button for that

And I personally think the Momo 6x9's would sound killer... My Strat has
four 6x9's from the factory (and yes, for an OEM system it's quite good)
I imagine with 4 Momo 6x9's driven off a couple Momo CF amps that would
be hot

And suprisingly my stock system does image (not spectacular) but having
the 6x9's in the doors just pulling "woofer" duty (no tweeters) and having
a set of 3.5" Mid/Tweets in the dash firing directly off the glass, works
very well (in this application anyway).

But I ramble... I really need to button up the boat install and get some photos
posted for you guys

PoweredByDodge

Red230SX wrote:

but having
the 6x9's in the doors just pulling "woofer" duty (no tweeters) and having
a set of 3.5" Mid/Tweets in the dash firing directly off the glass, works
very well (in this application anyway)

that's how my truck is set up - 6x9's are great for midbass.

MacLeod

Vinny is right. 6x9's are very underrated speakers. The whole myth about them not being as good cause oval speakers are not as rigid as round speakers is bunk. If they came out with a set of SR 6x9 components Id snatch em up in a heartbeat and never look back.

exalted512

"bunk"

lol
-Cody

AustinKP

MacLeod wrote:

Vinny is right. 6x9's are very underrated speakers. The whole myth about them not being as good cause oval speakers are not as rigid as round speakers is bunk. If they came out with a set of SR 6x9 components Id snatch em up in a heartbeat and never look back.

...ever wonder why they DON'T have SR 6x9's?

MacLeod

MB Quart has 6x9 components and if I werent a diehard and loyal Polkster, that is exactly what would be in my truck right now and forever more.

The MMC690 is one of the best sounding midrange speakers on the market. I wish to God they would come out with a MMC6900 component system.

bknauss

AustinKP wrote:

...ever wonder why they DON'T have SR 6x9's?

My stab in the dark would be this:
Who the hell would pay for 6x9s in the price range of the SR components?

PoweredByDodge

MB Quart is shoddy in my not so humble and very antisocial opinion. They don't tickle my fancy as Polk, Image Dynamics, and all things Mitek do.

6x9's as components... eh... here's the deal... why bother?

Your company XYZ and you build a great component set (ala the SR series)... now you dump a chunk of change into development, tooling, and build costs. You make 6 1/2 and 5 1/4 sizes... this will fit something like 99.99% of vehicles on the road with minimal work (ie. adaptor plate). That being said, why would you waste the time, effort, and money on having to basically redesign the set to work with a new 6x9 driver that only maybe 10% or less (probably less) of your customer base will be able to use since the only people with 6x9's up front are Chrysler truck and fleet vehicle customers and some other rare breeds. Total bad idea to build the speaker for such a limited audience... especially when the same people can use the 6 1/2 with a plate.

Want a midbass in the door? fine... do what our friend Thomas did (remember Thomas?) Put the 6.5's in the kicks, the tweeter where you'd normally put it, and cut your doors out to accept 8" mid-woofers.

Or be the speaker hatchet murder like me... but considering all the issues i've had, i wouldn't exactly reccomend it (or do it again -- well ya i would, but i'm mentally unstable so that doesn't really count).

MacLeod

bknauss wrote:

My stab in the dark would be this:
Who the hell would pay for 6x9s in the price range of the SR components?

ME!

No joke! I would gladly pay for a 6x9 SR midrange. They would likely have all the wonderful characteristics of the 6.5 but with better low end response! Sign me up!

bknauss

MacLeod wrote:

ME!

No joke! I would gladly pay for a 6x9 SR midrange. They would likely have all the wonderful characteristics of the 6.5 but with better low end response! Sign me up!

You officially get to pay all the bills for RnD and the production of 1 pair of SR 6x9s Got a couple hundred kidneys to sell?

98thumpin

if u haul people in the back yea get rears i have rears in my car but unless im hauling people i leave them turned off most times the fronts sound better and lets face it in my car i cant tell much differnce with the front to rear set in the middle or all up front cant really tell the rears are on.

MacLeod

bknauss wrote:

You officially get to pay all the bills for RnD and the production of 1 pair of SR 6x9s Got a couple hundred kidneys to sell?

Hmmm.....good point. 6.5's it is!!

PoweredByDodge

i'm fat so my kidneys must be huge -- i'll sell one for a robot wife.

neomagus00

we could collect my roommate from last year... he's got three kidneys...