Home Generator for back up power

HBombToo

I am meeting with a gentleman this afternoon regarding the installation of a back up power system for my house. I have a much experience with this from my current job ensuring our commercial switching systems are protected. However, I have no experience with home systems and I was curious if anyone on the forum could throw any advice my way. I have a meeting set up at 4 PM central today so your day help will be appreciated

Current base line for discussion is as follows:

Generac
fuel source is natural gas but subject to change.
6Kv for the initial discussion but if I hit about 4Kv I should be good.
Automatic tranfer switch.
Location of generator situated adjacent to the house but could move to a location in the back yard.

All considerations or distractions are welcome!
Thanks in advance.
HBomb

Demiurge

Generac is a great company, good luck

Early B.

Cool. I've been wanting to get a Generac backup generator because the power goes out fairly often in my neighborhood. Can't provide any technical advice, but hope it works out for you.

BTW, do you know if the generator will be noisy?

I-SIG

Be sure and check with your local power company about your transfer switch. The cooperative where I currently work requires some external mechanism that our linemen can physically lock themselves and put a hot-line holdtag on. We don't want our linemen getting fried by current backfeeding through a transformer.

Wes

bpadget

You might want to consider a small ups (something more than your standard surge protector) on your sensitive electronic equipment.

seo

I SO want a nat gas powered generator!!!

I am envious.

Skynut

I am interested in the total cost of instalation.
please post updates for us.
Good luck.

unc2701

OK, the power off of mine is pretty dirty, so I'd put things like heat & cooling, plus the kitchen circuits on it. I'm pretty nervous when I put the TV on it, and the stereo isn't coming anywhere near it. The auto transfer is a waste of money, unless you're out of town a lot. Here, we loose power due to ice storms and hurricanes, so you've got plenty of warning. Depending on the power company, it's also a lot easier to have a manual transfer (you throw the switch and it's off the grid... no questions, no surprises). I'd go ahead and get the 6kva one. I'm guessing you have gas heat, so that's plenty to run the fan on it, plus a light circuit and the kitchen outlets. 4kva is gonna be a 15amp and a 20amp... not much to work with.

F1nut

They seem to prefer battery back up systems around here, dead quiet

jcaut

I-SIG wrote:

Be sure and check with your local power company about your transfer switch. The cooperative where I currently work requires some external mechanism that our linemen can physically lock themselves and put a hot-line holdtag on. We don't want our linemen getting fried by current backfeeding through a transformer.

Wes

Regarding the above comment: I'm sure any reputable company will take that into consideration, and adhere to the local power company requirements. It's worth repeating, though, because I've had some dealings with backfeed and it's scary and incredibly dangerous.

Jason

schwarcw

Henry,

Make sure you get a whole house surge protector while you got the electrician there. I'm looking into a Honda gasoline powered generator. Very dependable, fast start, easy to service. There a little pricey compared to some of the cheaper ones. Batteries are okay if your just worried about a sump pump in a thunderstorm. But you want some real power to operate the airconditioning and the freeezer so you don't lose food or sleep if it takes the electric company more than 10 or 12 hours to restore power.

When are you returning to the 'Burgh?

Frank Z

Backfeed through your dryer outlet (208/230VAC). Kill the main breaker and only run the bare essentials (furnace and fridge).

F1nut

Henry, here's some info on the system I mentioned. http://www.bannerbackup.com/index2.htm

It looks like it could be very expensive.

read-alot

Frank Z wrote:

Backfeed through your dryer outlet (208/230VAC). Kill the main breaker and only run the bare essentials (furnace and fridge).

There was a power company employee KILLED by a dumbass homeowner doing this when he forgot to flip the main and run the juice to the pole.

Needless to say the family of the deceased now owns the dumbass and everything he will ever hope to own.

Frank Z

Obviously there's alot more to the story and not having all the details makes it difficult to rebutt. Please note that I did say kill the main breaker in my post.

Any electrical work can be deadly. If you don't know what you're doing...DON'T EFFIN' TOUCH IT!! If someone else could be injured, or worse, by your actions...DON'T EFFIN' TOUCH IT!!

nadams

Frank Z- I think the point is, that works fine unless you forget to flip the main breaker. Same thing with a manual disconnect.... that's why they came up with automatic ones. To save some poor linemans **** when Mr. Forgetful... forgets.

read-alot

Alabama, July 14, 2005 - Sumter Electric Cooperative (SECO) officials report that a South Carolina lineman helping to restore power in Alabama after the damage caused by Hurricane Dennis was killed late Tuesday, reportedly by an improperly installed customer generator.

According to SECO Director of Public Affairs Barry Bowman, the lineman was helping to restore power lost during Hurricane Dennis to customers in Alabama. The report Bowman received indicated the lineman was working on a power line that was supposed to be dead. It was not.

“Tragically, the line this technician was working on was not dead,” said Bowman, “The line he was trying to repair had been re-energized by a customer who had improperly hooked up a generator and created a back feed of electricity from the generator into the supposedly dead line. The death of a lineman who was there to help the victims of Hurricane Dennis was the horrible result.”

Bowman noted that the lineman’s name was not immediately released, but he was from South Carolina and worked for Pike Electric, Inc. in North Carolina.

Alabama authorities are looking for the person responsible and indicate that charges are pending.

unc2701

nadams wrote:

Frank Z- I think the point is, that works fine unless you forget to flip the main breaker. Same thing with a manual disconnect.... that's why they came up with automatic ones. To save some poor linemans **** when Mr. Forgetful... forgets.

Actually a properly wired manual transfer keeps this from happening- you can't get power from the generator without flipping it and if it's flipped, it can't backfeed into the main power lines.

nadams

Ah, my mistake, then. Still... the straight backfeed into the system method works, but it very dangerous if you forget to flip the breaker... that was the point of my post.

I-SIG

Too bad those micro-turbines are still bloody expensive....

Wes

unc2701

yeah, outlet backfeeds are almost always a bad idea and I've seen some ghetto rigged transfers, that are probably what you were talking about.

read-alot

I installed a propane powered electric start generator for my family back when I was on the road 33 weeks out of the year. The one thing my brother who had been a licensed electrician for 20 years preached was transfer switch.

You just never know who takes our suggestions on this board and its possible that our suggestions to the wrong person could end up killing someone.

Sorry for being so blunt but the Pike death got close to home.

disneyjoe7

Telephone line people need to check for a foreign voltage if not he / she is DEAD. They use foreign voltage detector for this purpose if they didn't and get killed the family may not get any cash for US for he **** forget.

So my take F off if Electrical line People can't see foreign voltage because they don't use a device for this or they are not educated about this that who problem is it?

Most people are not bright so line people need to be Brighter.

read-alot

Edit for the "edit".


My friends out of Mt.Airy who work for Pike would love to come down to Florida and meet you the next time the wind blows your power away.Maybe then you will repeat what you have said here.

madmax

disneyjoe7 wrote:

So my take F off if Electrical line People can't see foreign voltage because they don't use a device for this or they are not educated about this that who problem is it?

Just wondering, if the lineman checks for voltage and there is none and he starts working on the line, what keeps him from being harmed if someone starts up a generator back fed improperly while he is working?
madmax

read-alot

Florida Steve probably never experenced an ice storm where the trees coated with frozen water make them as deadly as the power lines laying hidden somewhere under them.
In that scenario you dont have to be the brightest bulb in the socket - you die anyway.

disneyjoe7

madmax wrote:

Just wondering, if the lineman checks for voltage and there is none and he starts working on the line, what keeps him from being harmed if someone starts up a generator back fed improperly while he is working?
madmax

Madmax,

You have me rethinking my attitude if someone starts a generator / or any other power producing device wrong after he checked for voltage then he dead. Sorry maybe God has his or hers time clock shut off / done. Who are we to say when is when?

disneyjoe7

read-alot wrote:

Florida Steve probably never experenced an ice storm where the trees coated with frozen water make them as deadly as the power lines laying hidden somewhere under them.
In that scenario you dont have to be the brightest bulb in the socket - you die anyway.

Florida Steve is a northern transplant, who has experienced all kinds of "Ice Storms". But I do feel most are Bright where I lived before, many here are not.

read-alot

disneyjoe7 wrote:

Telephone line people need to check for a foreign voltage if not he / she is DEAD. They use foreign voltage detector for this purpose if they didn't and get killed the family may not get any cash for US for he **** forget.

So my take F off if Electrical line People can't see foreign voltage because they don't use a device for this or they are not educated about this that who problem is it?

Most people are not bright so line people need to be Brighter.

So maybe he **** forget happen cause he really didnt forget the ****?

I-SIG

disneyjoe7 wrote:

Florida Steve is a northern transplant, who has experienced all kinds of "Ice Storms". But I do feel most are Bright where I lived before, many here are not.

Many in Orlando are from where you're from.

Wes

(And yes, I know what the hell an ice storm really is.)

HBombToo

Well after a brief walk through with the A.B. May consultant I was mildly taken aback from the price. I figured sub 3k for a 6KV system but after running gas lines and doing the electrical it came in at 4.6k.

I asked the question regarding the tranfer switch and it does automatically open the house and prevent any back EMF across the power lines protecting the workers. "I figured it would but asked anyway."

A 12KV system will run about 6.5k so for a comparison you get double the power for an approximate 50% increase in cost. The interesting thing is the bigger the generator is the natural gas requirement begins to exceed the capacity of a 1.5 inch gas run which will minimize your total gererator output. Frank could probably explain the ins and outs of this with more detail.

So at the end of the day I will not be using A.B. May and will continue to search for a 6KV system for less than 3k. Not sure if thats possible but I'll try anyway.

Thanks for all the comments.
HBomb