I've had it! Time for new Speakers!

mldennison

So last night I go home really wanting to just sit back, relax and listen to some good music but again i was just totally frustrated by my systems preformance. The imaging is just very poor and comes out more as 2 point sources with a tiny mish-mash center image. They do okay when listening to something relatively simple like an accoustic guitar or some simple percussion but anytime I get something on there with a number of instruments, it just all goes into a jumbled mess.

I was really hoping I could make it a little while longer without having to upgrade again, I am planning on finding a place to settle down in for more than a year very soon and I was hoping to wait until then to make a major speaker purchace but I think it is just going to have to happen now.

Right now I am thinking about just doing the fronts and possibly the sub. Probably will go with bookshelves as they give more flexibility given that my listening room will probably change at least one more time before I settle. The bookshelves could then be used as surrounds or a second system later on if I decide i need more.

Any comments on this? I think I am correct in assuming that it is my speakers and not the electronics that are holding me back. Not really looking for models yet as I have not had a chance to go out and listen to anything, that I am going to try and start with this weekend. I will post more once I get out and start listening! I guess this might be fun afterall

jmierzur

Without further information, I do not think the problem with your system is speakers or electronic, but how you have your system configured within your room. The sentence “The imaging is just very poor and comes out more as 2 point sources with a tiny mish-mash center image” hints that you need to relocate the speakers.

It may be that your speakers are too far apart, or they need to be moved into the room in front of the audio stand, or you could toe in the speakers to focus the center image...

Have a look at the Home Audio Speaker Placement article on the Polk Audio site. This should give you a start on placing your speakers in the room.

I would have a look at optimizing what you have before you run to the nearest store and upgrade. If you are able, provide a picture of your room.

mldennison

thanks jmierzur, i really did not put much consideration into speaker placement as they are currently set up. tonight i tried to get the speakers a little more off of the wall and i am seeing a little better image anthough it still seems very concentrated in the center. going to try and play around with the toe in a little and see how that changes things.

attached is a picture of the system as i currently have it. the two mains are 7ft apart and are 21" from the back wall. unfortunately the right speaker is only about 14" from the wall. i think with some work moving the TV and the rack i could get it another foot or so away from that wall. that might make things a little more even sounding since the hallway on the other side makes it a little uneven.

i think ultimately i may just be unsatisfied with the level that these speakers are at. they are the first real speakers that i got and i have had them for a good 10 years now. might finally be time to move on to something else...

Mazeroth

How many feet back do you listen? I find it's good to have a near equilateral triangle, with the front speakers being a vertex and your listening spot being near the last vertex of the triangle. I like to keep the speakers toed-in so the tweeter line crosses a foot or so behind my head. This is at my current listening position, which is only about eight feet away. If I were 12-16 feet back from my speakers, I would want the the tweeters lines to meet up further back.

Early B.

It's cool that you want to get another pair of speakers. Consider Polk Lsi9's. Keep in mind that to get the best out of whatever you eventually decide to purchase, you'll probably need to upgrade a few other things such as the center channel (for timbre matching), the sub (for better bass response), your CD player, and cables. IMO, it's an all-or-none proposition. If you're not prepared to do that, then keep what you got.

mldennison

mazeroth, i sit about 12 feet back so a bit longer than the speakers are wide. unfortunatly there is a sliding door on the right that needs to stay accessable. i did find that the toe-in was better when aimed a little behind me, this gave the most depth to the image, too far behind you and it started to seem flat, in front of you and it got too narrow.

early, i definately will consider the lsi series (probably 7 or 9). i do realize that i need to do some other upgrading (when is it ever done). i think that new fronts and a sub are going to be first since they will give the most difference for 2 channel. after that i will probably do the CD player since it is old as well and is starting to go. btw, how do you like the soliloquy's. i have never heard them but they look like very solid build wise and have a number of monitor models.

thanks,
mike

wingnut4772

Also another thing to consider may be acoustical treatments. Putting some Auralex B24 boards on the wall behind my front stage and at the first reflection point really improved my sound. You have to get the speaker placement right first though. I had someone show me what can be accomplished with proper placement and I managed to reproduce the sound in my home for the most part.

reeltrouble1

Book Shelf are never going to match a statement set of Towers for musical reproduction, establish your budget get the best gear you can, yes, source can definetly cause a confused muddled sound. Polk has come a ways since the S 8.

And yes I agree the chase for the gear can be very fun.

RT1

Early B.

mldennison wrote:

btw, how do you like the soliloquy's. i have never heard them but they look like very solid build wise and have a number of monitor models.

Love my Soliloquys. I use them for HT only. Yeah, very, very solidly built. The Soliloquy 5.3's have a small footprint, but weigh 80 lbs. each.

There are literally hundreds of good monitor choices out there, but I agree with reeltrouble -- for your room size, consider floorstanders.

steveinaz

Just for S&G's check the polarity on your speaker connections...thats been happening around here alot lately.

Ferres

Perhaps you could raise the speakers a little. They look a little too low, especially for bookshelf types.

mldennison

wingnut - yeah, accoustic treatments are something i have not really looked into. are the ones that you use in any way portable. i ask because in the next few years i see the possibility for a couple more moves before i settle into a place for any long period of time and would hate to spend all the time and effort only to get them right for one place and then not be able to use them for the next.

rt, early - you do make a good point with the floorstanders. right now i am leaning towards a budget of about $1k and i am not sure that i will be able to find a floorstander in that range that will give me what i want. i also think that bookshelves would be better given what i just said about moving in the future. but i will have to do some auditioning of both to see if my opinion changes at all.

steve - yeah, i saw those posts too. i checked last night and as long as the audioquest guys got it right inside of the jacket everything is okay. thanks though!

wingnut4772

Yes. Very portable. I use Auralex because they are inexpensive but you may also want to try Real Traps, etc...You can rig them in spots to try out the sound before you place them also. That's what I did.

Early B.

mldennison wrote:

rt, early - you do make a good point with the floorstanders. right now i am leaning towards a budget of about $1k and i am not sure that i will be able to find a floorstander in that range that will give me what i want.

Are you kidding? With $1k, you can get some serious floorstanders, especially if you buy used ones. Check out audiogon.

mldennison

okay, maybe i am worrying about this more than is necessary now. i guess i just need to get out there and listen

jmierzur

Hi Mike,

Thanks for posting the picture. This provides a great deal of information that may have not been communicated with words.

To start, being 12’ back from speakers 7’ apart poses somewhat of a challenge for two channel listening. From another post in this thread, I understand moving the current listening position forward is not an option. At this point, I will assume the primary listening position consists of a sofa.

For two channel listening, could you use the blue portable chair positioned at the optimum listening position? If this could not be a long term option, have you considered reorienting your system 90 degrees right (clockwise) so the current right side of the room becomes the front of the audio environment? I am not sure of the exact dimensions, but it looks like the wall length is about 9 to 10’. The primary listening position (sofa?) would be positioned so its back would be level with the opening to the other room. Your system would then be setup accordingly within the new dimensions. If this could be an option, try moving the speakers to the new location to determine its potential before moving the remaining components to the front and remounting the rear speakers.

General Tips

Ideally, you will want to start with an equilateral triangle with the speakers and listening position being the points. A good initial location for speaker placement from the front wall would be 1/5 the front to the rear room dimension. Make sure the side boundaries are not too close to a wall. I also prefer to have the speakers toed in and intersecting behind the listening position.

To center the soundstage image, try finding something that is recorded in mono. The sound should float directly between the two speakers. If it does not, adjust until it does. Some test discs may have mono tracks on them.

Play something that moves across the soundstage from one speaker to the other. If the image jumps from one speaker to the other across the center, move the speakers closer together until there is a smooth transition. I use the disc Enigma MCMXC A.D., second tract for this test. You may have another selection in your collection that can provide the same test.

From your picture, it appears that the speakers are on stands that do not bring the tweeter to ear height. Taking this into consideration, there is a speaker placement philosophy recommending monitor style speakers placed low to the ground and angled up towards the listener. What ever location you decide on, angle the speakers up so they point towards the listening position.


The setup changes I am suggesting apply to your existing equipment and any subsequent purchases. Try implementing these changes to see if they can provide you with additional benefits in your environment.

ninerbj

I have the S10's and have found that if I angle them a tad, I get much better results. I too would also look into getting them higher off the ground. At least get the tweeters era level.

dragon1952

For floor standers I can highly recommend the Vandersteen 2Ce signatures. If it's beautiful, non-fatiguing, musical, full range speakers with pinpoint imaging and huge soundstage you want these fill the bill. In your budget used also. Fantastic speakers.

mldennison

thanks again for the tips everyone. did not have that much time to do any listening this weekend (skiing is finally starting to get good out here on the east coast!). i dont think that rotating the room is going to be something that is possible but i do think i can probably get the couch within a few feet of the speaker distance (speakers 7ft apart, couch 8-9 feet from them) so that will hopefully help. the stands that i have the S8's on are actually tiled up (cant really see it from the pic) so in the range of 8-12 feet they are at eye level. i am going to play around some more this week, i have the DVD essentials setup disc which i think has some good test stuff for imaging so i will see how that sounds.