New head unit

MacLeod

Got me a new head unit!! WOOOHOO!! Alpine 9855!

Got a good deal at Tweeter by getting them to price match Crutchfield so I got a $450 h/u for $400!

Man let me tell ya about this time alignment. Yes I still consider it cheating but since EVERY SINGLE competitor Ive run up on is using it I must give in at least as long as my speakers are in stock locations.

But I digress, right now my stage is PERFECT (not considering depth and some midbass parts are a tad low) but my positioning is dead on. The narrators voice on the MECA SQ disc which used to be 3" from the drivers door is now right under the mirror and oddly enough, my stage is now wider than ever!

I am sooooo stoked! My system has never sounded this good!

I cannot wait for the national MECA show this weekend! I only hope that dude that beat me last time is there! Its rematch time!

Now Ive just got to figure out this damn EQ and I just hope and pray this stupid "glide touch" holds out longer than the 3 days Im thinking its going to last.

1996blackmax

I have been using T.A. since the mid 90's. This was back when you had to get a seperate processor/EQ unit to have it. It is a sweet thing . Now you see what I had been saying . Glad that things are working out, now go kick some rear end!

exalted512

Congrats on the new HU!

Good luck with the glide crap though...Theres a reason alpine got rid of that:D
-Cody

1996blackmax

By the way, I think the Biolite display is the best display on the market. Very clean looking, as well as elegant. That is the one thing I miss about my Alpine CDA-7998.

1996blackmax

Since wer are talking about new HU's. Check this one out. One of the guys on another board I hang out just installed it in his car.

http://www.audiocubes.com/category/Car+Audio_2+Din+Receivers/product/Panasonic_CQ-TX5500D_Vacuum_Tube_CD_Receiver.html


Hey Mac, did you notice your bass getting a little tighter as well? May not be as big as a difference for you as you have a truck, but for people who have a sub in the trunk, T.A. really helps out. Feels nice to get new gear huh?

Greg Peters

Congrats- that is an excellent head unit for SQ.

You have (2) choices for EQ with the 9855- parametric OR graphic.

With graphic EQ, you have 7 bands that are a lot like really detailed bass and treble controls.

With the parametric EQ, you only have 5 bands, BUT... you can not only boost/cut frequencies, but move the frequencies higher or lower in relation to each other as well. Alpine will allow you to move them within 4 increments of the next band. You can also choose to boost a very select frequency band (raising the "Q" number) or corresponding frequencies as well to a degree (lower "Q" number). This is great for sorting out anomolies in the interior of your truck due to materials in the vehicle bouncing frequencies around. Changing the "Q" is kinda like changing slope when adjusting electronic crossovers, and the 9855's crossovers have choices for slope in this manner as well.

This EQ takes some fiddling to get right, but once it is dialled in you can save variations of your favourite EQ setting in the presets, for bumping high and low frequencies up or down to fit different genres of music with one touch of the "button" on the strip. If you want "flat" EQ curve as an option, it is a factory EQ preset also one button touch away.

I have tried to kill the glide touch on a 9855 in my local retailer's demo board, but have not had any luck yet. It has been on display for a long time.

Please report back if the 9855 brings an improvement all around with the EQ set up.

deepinya

Congrats man and go get em this weekend!

audiobliss

Greg Peters wrote:

I have tried to kill the glide touch on a 9855 in my local retailer's demo board, but have not had any luck yet. It has been on display for a long time.

I bet he replaces it every time you walk out!


Congrats, Mac. Glad you like it!

exalted512

1996blackmax wrote:

Since wer are talking about new HU's. Check this one out. One of the guys on another board I hang out just installed it in his car.

http://www.audiocubes.com/category/Car+Audio_2+Din+Receivers/product/Panasonic_CQ-TX5500D_Vacuum_Tube_CD_Receiver.html

I saw that when it came out. Interesting radio. Although I have to admit, my radio will be next to useless when i get the RF 360º. All my filters on both amps and radio will be set to all pass and letting this thing do all the work...that is when i actually have time to build everything and put everything in...
-Cody

audiobliss

...which won't be 'til, like, 2007!

MacLeod

exalted512 wrote:

I saw that when it came out. Interesting radio. Although I have to admit, my radio will be next to useless when i get the RF 360º. All my filters on both amps and radio will be set to all pass and letting this thing do all the work...that is when i actually have time to build everything and put everything in...
-Cody

I dunno dude, dont ya think there is a point where you can OVER process things?

That thing has like what, three 30 band EQ's?

Ive just never been much of a super tweaker I guess.

1996blackmax

The Panasonic HU has no processing built in, only bass and treble, and only 2 preouts. The thing that makes it stand out is that it is a tube HU made for SQ. You would have to use external processing if you wanted any sort of major tweaking.

Greg Peters

audiobliss wrote:

I bet he replaces it every time you walk out!

I better check the dumpster behind the shop so I can get me one of those too.

sntnsupermen131

MacLeod wrote:

I dunno dude, dont ya think there is a point where you can OVER process things?

That thing has like what, three 30 band EQ's?

Ive just never been much of a super tweaker I guess.

not really, I mean youre not changing the sound, you just have more adjustments to get the sound as flat as possible because every car is different. Some cars give peaks in odd places that arent easily adjustable. Plus the thing is just so incredibly easy to use.

And I know the panansonic has very little controls, my point was that i dont use a hu for a source of amplification, if i wanted tube amps i would go with marc anthony or USAmps, certainly not a panasonic radio. But it is a cool idea, and the thing looks sweet as hell
-Cody

Greg Peters

So...how does it sound all set up, Mac?

I picked up a 9855 for an out-of-town friend (for the equivalent of $333 US) that is waiting in the box to be installed in a '05 Jetta TDI- he would be less than thrilled if I broke it in first for him in my Jeep.

If Mac's sounds really good, I'll try to hunt up another (before they're all gone) for my own car and attempt to leverage the sales guy to match that price for mine (I haven't had any luck finding a 9855 with broken glide-touch in the dumpster).

The reason I'm so curious is because I plan to run a pair of sr6500s up front (like Mac is doing) and wonder if this will do them more justice than my older model h/u. I'm also looking to swap out my MRD-M301 for an Alpine MRD-M605 (2005 model) so that I can run both of my amps through something like the 9855 and take advantage of the Alpine amplink feature- this lets you adjust the gains, xovers etc. on '05 V12 amps through the head unit, without pulling up seats or practicing yoga positions to do so in the traditional manner. I would also consider ditching the MRV-F345 in favour of the MRV-F545 (125rms+ x 4) if the price were right. I love clearance time, but timing is of the essence.

Someone on the forum recommended Ikesound, and they have these amps listed at unbelievable (less than ebay) prices as well. I have no experience with Ikesound, but for those prices would almost give them a try.

MacLeod

So far Im still loving this thing. Plenty of features for me. Im not crazy about the glide touch and I treat it like its made out of glass but it works fine.

Another cool bonus was apparantly this one has stronger preouts than my last one. Both are rated at 4 volts but this one requires much less volume to get the same output I was used to from my 9807 so Im assuming the 9807 was 4 volts MAX while my 9855 is 4 volts RMS.

One thing Im finding out is this TA thing is F**KING HARD TO GET RIGHT! Dont get me wrong, TA has improved my stage 100% and its now centered right where it needs to be but having my tweeters in seperate locations is making things kinda tricky.

My main problem is I have horrible focus issues. Both tweeters are firing into the middle of the dash and while this has helped stage height and imaging altogether its caused some issues with reflection (trust me, I tried them mounted everywhere else and these were the best tradeoff). Also, my left mid is firing about into my kneecap while the right mid is very on axis with me so thats a problem.

So while the narrators voice is centered under the mirror, the focus is spread over the whole stage kinda like a small echo. Its not overpowering but its annoying and definitely going to be costing me points. Im afraid I wont be able to do much to cure this with stock speaker locations and Ill have to wait til next year when I move up to the Modified class to remedy it.

Let me tell y'all something. Competing in SQ is f**king hard! About the time you figure out how to fix one problem, 5 more appear! Oh well, thats the beauty of MECA and why Ill be a dedicated and loyal member; they have an amateur class so while youre learning the ropes, youre competing against others that are in the same boat you are.

So in answer to your question, this is the best value in a head unit on the market right now. $400 for high voltage preouts, time alignment, parametric EQ and all kinds of other Ipod crap. If youre in the market and can still find one of these, grab it.

audiobliss

MacLeod wrote:

So in answer to your question, this is the best value in a head unit on the market right now. $400 for high voltage preouts, time alignment, parametric EQ and all kinds of other Ipod crap.

I'm not 100% sure about that. I sure enjoy my 860 for the same price (IIRC). Though admittedly, I'm not using TA. I guess if TA is a big thing (and it obviously is for your application), then the 860 isn't that great a choice.


Anyhoo, glad to hear you're liking. Hopefully you can finish tuning it a little bit for the competition this weekend. Hope ya win!

Greg Peters

Thank you sir- kinda what I was hoping to hear. I will try to get another 9855 if I can pull off a good price.

I do not currently use the time correction feature on my 9813, but I do use the "bass focus" feature, which alters the Alpine default time correction settings somewhat.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the time correction in the 9855 allows you to adjust 6 channels for T/A- two front channels, two rear channels, two sub channels. You basically measure the distance from each individual speaker to the listener's head, plot the time correction number for that distance on the chart in the manual, then enter the appropriate delay number for each channel in the time correction menu for a typical install.

If I remember right, you are not a fan of rear fill, so...you could probably treat each of the four individual drivers in the sr6500 set as an individual channel to be aligned as such. This would be the obvious choice.

If this setting doesn't work out for the best, maybe measuring distance of mid-point between midbass and tweeter on each side of the vehicle (giving you an averaged position for the pair) and then measuring the distance between this mid point on axis to listener's position in driver's seat for T/A (treating each pair as one channel for T/A purposes) might work out better. The fact that both sr6500 component pairs are sharing a single passive crossover between them may be throwing off the phasing slightly if you try to time-align each individual driver in the pair as a stand alone source. Treating each component pair as a single driver (a "virtual" co-ax, that happens to have several inches between its woofer and tweeter) with its origin measured at the mid-point distance between woofer and tweeter may help, might be worth trying.

audiobliss

Those two ideas are very interesting. Makes me wanna get my components installed so I can try them out!

MacLeod

Yes, the time alignment does work that way but it can be set up for increments of cenimeters, inches or miliseconds. I set mine on miliseconds and basically put on the test track and then add delay until it positions and sounds right.

neomagus00

MacLeod wrote:

Yes, the time alignment does work that way but it can be set up for increments of cenimeters, inches or miliseconds. I set mine on miliseconds and basically put on the test track and then add delay until it positions and sounds right.

i think this is the only reliable way to do it... reflections and absorptions and yadda yadda can affect the TA settings a lot... tweaking each channel directly gets you the 'effective' distance, which is what you want in the end anyways...

exalted512

macleod, try wiring your driver side mid out of phase, see if that helps any
-Cody

1996blackmax

Hey Mac, how many channels are you running to your SR's? Reason I ask is that if you are bi-amping them you can actually align each tweeter and midrange independently. This will offer an improvement over doing the T.A. thing for both tweeter and mid as one.


I find that measuring the speakers offers a good starting point for the T.A. feature.

MacLeod

I tried all kinds of phase combinations before the TA and never noticed anything. I do plan on experimenting with it now that Ive got TA and see how it works.

Im bi-amping my beloved SR's so I am using different settings. The mid is delayed at 2.8 ms and the tweet is delayed at 1.0 ms. So far this works the best.

1996blackmax

Sounds like you're on the right track.

audiobliss

Greg Peters - What kind of Jeep do you have? I have a '95 Cherokee, two door. You probably have a Grand Cherokee or a Wrangler, with my luck, so I couldn't get any ideas from you...lol.

Greg Peters

I have a 98 Cherokee Sport 2DR. Basically the same thing, but they rounded off some of the edges for 97-01, and gave it a different interior.

audiobliss

Nice! So at least they are somewhat similar! Here's mine:



Where do you have your amps and sub mounted? I'm planning on putting my amps under the front seats. If I've measured correctly, Memphis amps should be small enough to fit. For a sub, I'm contemplating making an enclosure behind the panel under the right (looking from the back) rear window.

MacLeod

Update for those who care: Ive re-re-readjusted the TA again and now Im back at 1.9 for the mids and .5 for the tweeter and Im sure thatll change soon.

Another interesting tidbit is that I think I prefer the 7 band graphic EQ over the 5 band parametric EQ. Thats odd cause I figured Id dig the latter.

God Im just so blown away by how much of an improvement to my SQ has been made by getting a high end source unit. I never wouldve imagined it could make this much difference!

audiobliss

MacLeod wrote:

God Im just so blown away by how much of an improvement to my SQ has been made by getting a high end source unit. I never wouldve imagined it could make this much difference!

Good! I'm happy for you.

But just imagine how much of an improvement you'd be experiencing if you had gone with Eclipse, eh?

neomagus00

i agree, i much prefer the graphic over the parametric... SOOO much easier to rapidly tweak and listen, plus no chance of strange interactions between bands...