Please Help me decide on a new sub!!($400-$600)

brentski

My 10 yr.old sub. died on me recently and I find myself thrown into the new world of subwoofers, having to find one to buy.

In reading everything available these days, I'm kind of overwhelmed with all the choices thus, my need for help.

It'll be primarily for HT use in a room that's about 12'w x 18' L x 8' h with 2 dorways leading into adjoining rooms (if that makes any difference)
My receiver is an Onkyo TX- SR800(which has a sub. out with X-over settings between 40-120hz at 20hz intervals)

I've gone to several stores to listen to the subs but have decided that;
1) not only do the subs sound different from one store to the next
2) they sound completely different in the showrooms than they do in my cottage. (as I've 'borrowed' a couple)

I have a lot more faith in this forums knowledge and experience in the hope that I can get this list pared down to just a few to choose from.

As mentioned,I've budgeted up to $600 for a sub.(though I know, the best is not always the most expensive )

The list,in order of price;

SVS PB10 ISD $429
Klipsch sub-12 $437
Infinity PS 12 $449
Velodyne DPS 10 $449
Polk PSW 505 $499
Aperion S-10 $499
HSU VTF 2 $499
Velodyne DLS 3750 $499 (can be purchased for $299 in silver)
Pinnacle PS Sub 150 $549
SVS 25-31 PCI $549
SVS 20 39 PCI $599
SVS PB 12 ISD $600

I'm not trying to blow smoke up anyone's... but I respect the knowledge, advice,experience and honesty of those in this forum much more than the word of any salesperson and all the reviews out there.
Also,If I missed a real good one in this price range,please let me know.

So please, don't tear me a new one, but I'd really appreciate you helping me pare this list down to 2 or 3 sub's that I won't be sorry with.

Again, your help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
brentski

beardog03

we both have pretty much the same setup speaker wise..
where are you located ?

May know of a local pickup for a SVS pb-10

I personally would go SVS...box or cylinder

StopherJJ1980

Oh yay, I caugfht this relatively early... Let me save you a lot of reading, youre responses with endorse SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS, SVS and SVS if history has taught me anything on this forum.

But that is not without good reason. SVS just kicks **** for anything else in its price range.

Ricardo

Guess what: SVS

Seriously, get the best SVS you can afford; send an email to them and they will help you find the right one.

*Seby*-Polk-

HTrookie wrote:

Guess what: SVS

Seriously, get the best SVS you can afford; send an email to them and they will help you find the right one.

Really? is better tha, for example Velodyne or Polk sub-woofers (i don't know...) ???

Ferres

*Seby*-Polk- wrote:

Really? is better tha, for example Velodyne or Polk sub-woofers (i don't know...) ???

SVS has a very good reputation when it comes to HT. But it is not available in a lot of places outside the US. So it's hard to do a direct comparison for me.

*Seby*-Polk-

Ahhh...****. For that reason i don't know it....Finally, i must buy a polk or Yamaha sub.

Ricardo

To be fair, I have not done a direct comparison either; went from a Sony to a SVS PB10 to a 20-39 PC Plus.....
Polk has not gotten where they are by making subwoofers, and you can find a lot of comments on that right here.
I've never heard a Velodyne; some people like them.

For me, SVS all the way

tommyboy

I have the velodyne dps 10 and love it. I never heard a SVS before so I can't make a direct comparison. But the only reason I have the Dps is the huge discount I got but if I had some cash, it would be worth it to buy retail. The only major problem with the dps is the volume control. There is really no way of knowing (besides hearing it of course) what volume the sub is at. The manual states the the faster and slower the blinking light flashes, the higher and lower the volume is. That is just pathetic. Other than that, great sub(at least for my system).

*Seby*-Polk-

tommyboy wrote:

I have the velodyne dps 10 and love it. I never heard a SVS before so I can't make a direct comparison. But the only reason I have the Dps is the huge discount I got but if I had some cash, it would be worth it to buy retail. The only major problem with the dps is the volume control. There is really no way of knowing (besides hearing it of course) what volume the sub is at. The manual states the the faster and slower the blinking light flashes, the higher and lower the volume is. That is just pathetic. Other than that, great sub(at least for my system).

haha..."cheap fisher piece of crap" You must know about your next buy right ???

tommyboy

Yep, just bought my speakers and reciever within the past month so a dvd player and cd player will be on my list next month. then I will have completed my nice entry level system

well, now that i think about it, a new big screen will be the real completion (I see another 1500 at least thrown away for that)

*Seby*-Polk-

A lot of money....ha !!! I have only a SONY 29" TRINITRON WEGA Flat screen without HDTV....but here in Argentina..this TV costs 750 U$S. Its impossible for me buy, for example, a plasma or lcd screen that everybody gots here

Anyway ... I love my "modest" Sony !!!! Bye Tommy !!!!

Ferres

The velo spl-1200r sounds very tight, loud and low where it counts. Not very big (sealed type) and physically lighter than I expected. The Polk 404 is heavier but the 1200r is so much more powerful. Too bad it's still in the shop

brentski

The velo spl-1200r sounds very tight, loud and low where it counts. Not very big (sealed type) and physically lighter than I expected. The Polk 404 is heavier but the 1200r is so much more powerful. Too bad it's still in the shop

" but it's also over $1000 which is out of my price range!!

It seems as though the SVS's are the sub's that seem to be the people's choice here!

Does it really make a huge difference between their box or cylindrical type speakers?

Also,should I ever stumble across a used SVS (on this site,Audiogon or Craigslist),should I jump on it or is it worth spending the extra $$ on a new one with a full warranty?

Ricardo

Not many used SVS out there, but if you find one, general guidelines apply: buying used will save you money, and if you decide to sell you can recuperate most/all of your investment. SVS warranty is transferable by the way.

*Seby*-Polk-

HTrookie wrote:

Not many used SVS out there, but if you find one, general guidelines apply: buying used will save you money, and if you decide to sell you can recuperate most/all of your investment. SVS warranty is transferable by the way.

Mmm too bad....it's hard find any SVS subwoofer. I think buy a PSW 10 ... my room is aprox 5 meters x 4.5 meters. Height...3.5 mts.

Do you recommend this sub ????

Ricardo

Let me say this in Spanish this time

Che.......los subs de Polk no son los mejores....no se que otras marcas hay disponibles en Buenos Aires, pero si solo podes comprar Polk, trata de comprarte uno un poco mas grande para ese tama

VR3

I recomend the Bose Acoustimass.

Or SVS...you know, w/e...:)

*Seby*-Polk-

(Perfecto...muy buen nivel de espa

PolkThug

Get the biggest SVS you can afford. If you have to go Polk, get the 505.

brentski

OK,everyone says to get the most expensive SVS I can afford.($600)
Both the PB-12 and the 20-39 PCI are the same price

One's a box where the other's a cylider.

Is there any agreement as to one being better than the other or is it just what you want to have in your living room?

Thoughts?

PolkThug

Either one will be great.

capecodder

Never heard the SVS but have seen the great reviews of them here.

Still might want to consider HSU. I have one and love it and they have also been highly regarded as an excellent "true" sub-woofer for a very reasonable price. Can buy factory direct or find a good used one. I have the older original model.

*Seby*-Polk-

I tried the PSW-12 and works gret with Monitors series...I think that buy this sub next month !!! (SVS don't exist here )

Tour2ma

brentski wrote:

OK,everyone says to get the most expensive SVS I can afford.($600)
Both the PB-12 and the 20-39 PCI are the same price

One's a box where the other's a cylider.

Is there any agreement as to one being better than the other or is it just what you want to have in your living room?

Thoughts?

brent,
How you doing, bud? I see the Onk is still around. Guess you must like it...

Anywho... I'd be leery of a used sub from someone I did not know. There's too much abuse potential there.

A few SVS's have changed hands here. Mostly when a member upgraded to the next level of SVS.

I think your best bet is to talk to the folk at SVS (probably Tom). He/ They will steer you to the right model(s) for your room and within your budget. Feel free to ask about their cylinder subs vs. their box subs; the relative strengths and weaknesses of each.

Happy hunting...

Familycat

Just purchased an Outlaw sub LFM-1. $579.00 plus $60.00 for shipping and no tax. Works great, nice build quality. I had never heard of Outlaw until a Home Theatre guy turned me on to them. They only see via the internet. Did some checking and went with it. Very happy.Just my $.02.

Rick

frodaddy

If you're a DIY guy, look into an Infinite Baffle setup. I have one in my HT and I'm happy with it.
http://ibsubwoofers.proboards51.com/index.cgi

brentski

I stopped by Tweeters to give one of the Velodyne's a teste DLS-4000.

Strangley enough, when the sales person asked how I hooked my sub up, he (and he said that all the Tweeters staff sugest this) suggested that I leave all my speakers set to large,and play with the sub controls on both the sub as well as the receiver to tune it in properly.

That goes directly against everything I've heard about setting up subs,though he made a point that when setting your front speakers to small,you;re really only getting 1/2 (or less) the peformance they're made to give(which made a little sense I guess)

Anyone hear of or use this set-up with your sub?

Thanks,
brentsi

danger boy

both SVS box and cylinder subs sound great.. both have plusses and minuses... the cylinder subs are light weight.. about 45lbs.. you can move it around the room very easily. the box subs of course weight more.. more MDF.

The cylinder subs are tall.. esp the 20-39PCi. the pictures dont make it look big/tall at all. but once you see it in your home.. it's tough to hide. it basically sticks out like a sore thumb.

I'll stick with a box sub from now on... that's where i am now.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040406130429/www.adireaudio.com/home_audio/loudspeakers/exact_series/dharman.htm
this is my sub.. but it's no longer available.. discontinued.

This is just my opinion.. but SVS subs are great... best bang for your buck.. but i find that they work great for home theater movies.. but lack some musicality and good tone for music.. if you don't need a sub for music then SVS is probably right for you. I like to sometimes have the addition of a sub with my 2 ch listening.

BTW, the sub i have now i feel does better for music than the SVS did. i have nothing against SVS at all.

Tour2ma

brentski wrote:

... he (and he said that all the Tweeters staff sugest this) suggested that I leave all my speakers set to large...

Anyone hear of or use this set-up with your sub?

Really a matter of individual taste. There a several "Set-to-large" advocates here, e.g., RonP, Russman and others not immedialtely springing to mind.

For most, the ultimate goal in any set up is to achieve a flat, or as near flat as possible, FR curve at your listening position. This can be difficult to achieve in the bass region even with a single bass source, your sub. Deep bass, under 120 Hz or so, is tough to kill via absorbtion, so it tends to reflect off walls, floors, ceilings, tables, etc., until it simply dissapates with total distance traveled.

Flat response problems arise from the timing of the newly generated soundwaves vs. the previously generated, reflected sound. If multiple waves arrive in the same place at the same time in-phase, they are additive and create a "hot zone" where bass is exagerated. Arrive out-of-phase and they cancel each other creating a null, or a zone of diminished bass.

Setting mains to "large" potentially adds to the above issues by adding more bass sources. Now in addition to the sub, you have two additional sources of the problematic frequencies. Now "new" waves from the sub and the L and R mains can interact as explained above. Plus the reflections of the L/R mains' produced bass are in the picture.

All that said, setting to large can work with a little effort. Working with speaker/ sub postion, sub phase, sub gain, electronic notch filtering, room treatments, etc., flat response can be achieved. Whether it's worth the trouble is up to the individual, but if the goal is a flat response, it likely is not. Flat is flat, whether it involves the "simple" taming of a sub, using the same tools just mentioned, or mating of a sub and mains. More sources simply means more complexity.

On the other hand, if one's tastes runs to increased bass, quite likely for HT, and/or the sub owned is less than fully capable for the size of the room it's in, setting to large could be quite pleasing. Most running fully capable subs calibrate them a tad "hot", say +3 to +5 dB, anyway.

Generally running additional channels, center and surrounds, set to large is less problematic due to the speakers capabilty and/ or the more limited frequency range of the signal they see. But the potential for additional complications is there. especially with center. I know of few folk that run all channels set to large.

Most of these same HT bass lovers I mentioned above, will either run sans sub for 2 ch or calibrate their sub at or closer to 0 dB. Many AVR's and Pre-Pros are capable of storing separate speaker calibration for each input selection. Flat response is a more universal goal for music listening, but again, it's a matter of taste.

The only other factor in the way of your "freedom of choice" is the capability of your AVR/ amp(s). Setting to small helps a marginal amp by relieving it of deep bass duties, where a significant portion of the power demands reside.

Again, welcome back, bud...

kingtut

From your list, I'd choose the SVS PB12 ISD. I prefer the box over tube for apppearance. I'd also add either Outlaw LFM-1 or Hsu STF3 to your list.