Some Questions...

OnkyoFanatic

I would ideally like to add more power to my massive media room I'm in right now, which is being powered, adequately, by an Onkyo TX-SR600; with my calibration levels set and everything "dialed in," high-action DTS and Dolby Digital encoded DVDs sound engulfing and hair-raising for a six channel amp that costs 500 bucks. But the "more power!" bug has bitten, and I would like to add a power amp (multichannel) to this receiver and use the 600 as the preamp, something no less than 200 watts per channel...

The problem is, my receiver does not have pre-outs to feed an amp....but I have heard and have been told, in shadowy terms, that this can be sidestepped somehow by using a "cheater adapter" of some kind, much like it is used in car stereo....in my car, I have an 800 watt Rockford Fosgate amp running bridged to feed two 15 inch Rockford subs but Im using the factory radio so my installer ran an "RCA converter" to feed signal off the rear deck speakers for preamp level singnal to the amp, being that the stock head unit had no RCA outs...can ANYTHING like this be done with a home surround receiver? What about using any kind of other OUT jacks on the back of the receiver, such as TAPE OUT....would that work to feed a power amp? If there is a way to cheat the no preout problem on my receiver to feed an amp, can someone explain it to me?

Also, what's the concensus with using a graphic EQ with a surround receiver? Is it recommended? I understand that to equalize mulitchannel zones, you must be running independent amps to each channel in the analog domain and that some receivers today have room equalizing modes, but what about folks like me who own a receiver with NOTHING but bass and treble controls for tone adjustment? Can we add a graphic EQ to change and alter/tweak the delivery of Dolby Digital and DTS digital soundtracks -- can this even be DONE? Normally, a TAPE LOOP is needed on a receiver to add an EQ, but there is no tape loop on my Onkyo...is it even recommended to externally equalize a DIGITAL signal like that of Dolby Digital or DTS beyond simple tone controls; would this completely alter the intentions of the sound engineers? Should we just be listening to the DD and DTS tracks the way they were meant to be heard -- with no real equalization at all, coming right out of our receivers/processors? Right now, I leave bass and treble BOTH on flat (zero). I am looking to "punch up" the impact of DVD soundtracks out of my system and was wondering if adding an EQ will do that -- but Im also wondering if adding EQ can even be done to DIGITAL signals like those coming off a DVD...

Thanks in advance to anyone that can assist.

cfrizz

There are no shortcuts as far as I know that would be safe. Just save your money & buy another receiver with pre-outs or get into separates all together.

Or save your money & be content with what you have. But trying to take the cheap way out with such expensive equipment is unwise.

hoosier21

Carver use to offer a wide band/amp reciever coupler, the Z-1, Carver is long gone and your best bet would be to find them on Ebay, it was a transformer that took speaker level inputs and and stepped them down to RCA outputs. This was a stereo device, so you would need one ofr every 2 channels.

Storter answer, I agree with cfrizz, you will be better off getting a new reciever with pre out.

Ricardo

Someone posted this link some days ago...no idea how good this might be, but would do what you are asking:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=302-307

OnkyoFanatic

cfrizz wrote:

There are no shortcuts as far as I know that would be safe. Just save your money & buy another receiver with pre-outs or get into separates all together.

Or save your money & be content with what you have. But trying to take the cheap way out with such expensive equipment is unwise.

Thanks for the tip; I will most likely go your route you suggest.

OnkyoFanatic

hoosier21 wrote:

Carver use to offer a wide band/amp reciever coupler, the Z-1, Carver is long gone and your best bet would be to find them on Ebay, it was a transformer that took speaker level inputs and and stepped them down to RCA outputs. This was a stereo device, so you would need one ofr every 2 channels.

Storter answer, I agree with cfrizz, you will be better off getting a new reciever with pre out.

Thanks Hoosier; I'll look into this....

Going from speaker level to RCA level to feed a power amp is what I was talking about....thats what my car system has going on....

OnkyoFanatic

HTrookie wrote:

Someone posted this link some days ago...no idea how good this might be, but would do what you are asking:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=302-307

Yes Rookie -- this is precisely what I was thinking of....do you have any idea how this would connect to the rear of the receiver and then to the multichannel power amp, being that its stereo?

Ricardo

OnkyoFanatic wrote:

Yes Rookie -- this is precisely what I was thinking of....do you have any idea how this would connect to the rear of the receiver and then to the multichannel power amp, being that its stereo?

You would need one of these for each pair channels; you mention you have a 6 channel set up, so you'd need three converters. Then you just connect the speaker ouptut from your receiver to the speaker input of the converter, and then the RCA from the converter to the RCS input of the amp. One for each channel.

This is how this is supposed to be used. Just to clarify...I have no experience using this and no idea on how it might impact sound quality

OnkyoFanatic

"You would need one of these for each pair channels; you mention you have a 6 channel set up, so you'd need three converters."

Im only running five channels, so how many converters would I need for a five channel power amp?

"Then you just connect the speaker ouptut from your receiver to the speaker input of the converter, and then the RCA from the converter to the RCS input of the amp. One for each channel."

How are the "speaker outputs" connected from the receiver and speaker inputs of the converter; speaker wire itself? How exactly is this all connected? See, Im a bit confused....the rear of the receiver has speaker BANKS to connect speakers to using bare wire, as if youre using the receiver's amps to power the system, right? Now that the amp will be powering the system, the speaker wire from the speakers will go directly to the amp, but where does the signal feed from the receiver to the amp? Are you sure there's no way to go RCA through the receiver's tape out or such?

"This is how this is supposed to be used. Just to clarify...I have no experience using this and no idea on how it might impact sound quality [/QUOTE]"

I understand. Thank you.

okiepolkie

At $60 each($180+shipping), I think it would, in my opinion, be cheaper to sell your current Onkyo, and buy a pre/pro or another receiver with pre-outs.

OnkyoFanatic

okiepolkie wrote:

At $60 each($180+shipping), I think it would, in my opinion, be cheaper to sell your current Onkyo, and buy a pre/pro or another receiver with pre-outs.

Thanks Polkie; was just wondering if there was any way to hang onto that Onkyo because its such a beautiful looking, sturdy unit and I love their products....figured I could somehow work it into the external amp setup...

Ricardo

I agree with okiepolkie....I don't think anyone around has any experience with these converters, and at that cost you can almost get a receiver with pre-outs.

If you want to be the first one to try these converters, connections are speaker wire from receiver to converter and RCA from converter to amp. For 5 channels, you would still need three converters, but would use only half of one of them.

OnkyoFanatic

While Im still a little fuzzy on the connections, let me ask this: does anyone believe adding a 200 watt per channel amp, with these converter hookups, will make a TREMENDOUS volume/power difference over the Onkyo's internal amps?

bobman1235

OnkyoFanatic wrote:

Thanks Polkie; was just wondering if there was any way to hang onto that Onkyo because its such a beautiful looking, sturdy unit and I love their products....figured I could somehow work it into the external amp setup...

If you like your receiver so much, just get one of the same ilk - I believe the TX-SR800 has pre-outs. If you sell your current one and buy one equally used, the price differential couldn't be much more than 200-300 bucks. Seems much more worth it than some hokey line-level converter of dubious functionality.

A quick search of recently finished ebay auctions shows a TX-SR600 selling for 162 bucks, and a TX-SR800 selling for 350.

Shizelbs

I just bagged one of the Carver couplers on ebay. Gonna add a Carver amp to my fronts for the HT setup and see if I can open them up at all. The Oink feeding the 70s just plain suck balls for music.