Listening Makes You Want

janmike
janmike Posts: 6,146
edited April 2024 in Clubhouse Archives
I am sure that a lot of you have experienced going out and listening to great audio gear, then going home and turning your system on only to find that you are missing something. I just went through about 50 songs in the last 2 days and found that I need to upgrade in a bad way. Music sound like S&*T on my average system. I think the trip to Vancouver did me in.

:eek:
Michael ;)
In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
NORTH of 60°
Post edited by RyanC_Masimo on
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    Hey, other people tell me my system is good. I just listened to some really good gear.

    All Naim gear (pre, amp, & cd player) Total $29K
    Speakers - $4.5K
    Was it good, you bet your life.
    My audio world is only about three years old, so another 2 years to build my 2 CH.
    Patience has always been on my side.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,822
    edited February 2006
    I can say I have never had that problem - atleast not in the past year.

    Id venture to say its not important about price or "accuracy" or w/e - but finding a speaker that produces a sound that you like. And it dosnt really matter what you listen to, because you're always going to like that sound regardless..
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited February 2006
    Whenever that happens to me my system improves quickly. Normally I find that changing stuff around allows me to move up a notch. For example, speaker placement, rubber feet under a few components, cleaning up interconnect and speaker connections (usually just fumbling around with them) and other stuff I normally don't think about. With my particular preamp I found that feeding the CD into the tape-in rather than the CD input gave me a big jump upwards. Of course that was specific to my particular pre but you know what I mean. If I hadn't played around with it I would have never found that out. I bet there is a ton of potential sitting right in front of you that you may not have tapped into yet. Another thing is that it could have just been louder than your system. I once found that after listening to a better system that I was just trying to get too many decibles out of mine after returning home. Took me weeks to figure it out...
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    You are probably right madmax. I have played around a little trying to see how I could make it better. My problem is that I never seem to be able to go beyond speaker placement. Probably just a little inexperience on my part. I played around with the sub a little but I think it is definition and soundstage that I am missing. Then again, that's me and what I listened to a week ago is definitely better that what I have.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,822
    edited February 2006
    What is your system??

    Soundstaging has alot to do with how far the walls are from your mains than anything if you ask me...

    Getting your mains away from rear and side walls will do more than you think.

    Tilting the speakers up, toe in... all that adds up...

    Crossover mods... spiking... seperate amp? preamp? cdp?

    Yada yada yada
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited February 2006
    janmike -- please describe your 2-channel system for us including room dimensions.

    A few months ago I went to see one of my favorite jazz artists and her trio at a small venue with good acoustics. Then I went straight home and played most the songs from the concert on my 2-channel system. I concluded that I wasn't missing anything at all.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited February 2006
    I too would be interested in what you have in your system. Maybe we could be of help.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    The room is 18.5 X 14.5 with a 7.2 dropped ceiling. Carpet on the floor and is a dedicated HT / Audio room.

    Speakers:
    Front - RTi100's
    Centre - CSi5
    Rear - RTi6's
    SUB - REL Strata I

    RECEIVER - Yamaha RX-V1500 (Centre & Rears)
    AMP - Rotel RB-1080 (Front)
    CDP - Marantz SE67

    Cables:
    Analog Twos’s (Amp to Receiver & Marantz to Receiver)
    Ultra (Double Run) Single Wire (Front & Centre)
    MagicPower Digital/Video Power Cord (Yamaha)
    MagicPower Power Cord (Rotel)

    Fronts are 15" from the back wall & 12" from the side wall.
    Sub is 12" from the back wall near left front speaker.
    Listening postion is centred & 11' from the speakers. (Good for HT)


    All equipment is housed in open Plateau Audio Stands.
    Everything on the carpet has spikes.

    For HT it works great. It's the 2 CH thing that I would like to improve.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,822
    edited February 2006
    Get your mains atleast 1.5 - 2 feet from side walls and 2 feet from rear walls...

    Tilt them up
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited February 2006
    ...and connect all cables properly.

    And never say I didn't contribute something.

    :D
    George Grand wrote: »
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    In Use
    PS3, Yamaha CDR-HD1300, Plex, Amazon Fire TV Gen 2
    Pioneer Elite VSX-52, Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-82ii, RC-62ii, RS-42ii, RW-10d
    Epson 8700UB
    In Storage
    [Home Audio]
    Rotel RCD-02, Yamaha KX-W900U, Sony ST-S500ES, Denon DP-7F
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII, Parasound P/HP-850, ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Klipsch RF-35, RB-51ii
    [Car Audio]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP, Memphis 16-MCA3004, Boston Acoustic RC520
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    ...and connect all cables properly.
    Other than describing all of the connections, anything that could be wrong that a lot of people may do.

    Speakers are being relocated..........
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,822
    edited February 2006
    Make sure they are toed in (play with that)... RTi really needs some toeing in...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    Sid,
    And by toeing I understand that to be the angle?
    Are you tilting the front (putting maybe 1" or 2" of wedging)?
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,822
    edited February 2006
    I tilt mine about .25" higher than the back....

    With about a 3-4" toe in (ex: 1' 6" from wall, back corner.... 1' 9" from wall, front corner...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,822
    edited February 2006
    I go by the threads on the spikes personally - my front spikes are 4 threads higher than the back...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    I'll play with that a bit and will have to test tomorrow. The 6 year is asleep. Thanks.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • ohskigod
    ohskigod Posts: 6,502
    edited February 2006
    maybe a tube pre with a home theater bypass? it would go from pre outs from the yammie, to the input of the bypass on the pre. output to the amp. when the bypass is on, then the reciever acts as the pre (for home theater) but for 2 channel, the tube pre will drive the mains only (keep the yammie off)

    have a feeling that would make a significant improvement in the 2 channel dept.

    Dodd ELP is the cheapest I can think of with the home theater byass (is an option for an extra 50? new)

    just throwing the idea out.

    even my outlaw 950, while great for home theater, isnt the greatest in the planet for 2 channel music (hence I have a seperate 2 channel rig)
    Living Room 2 Channel -
    Schiit SYS Passive Pre. Jolida CD player. Songbird streamer. California Audio Labs Sigma II DAC, DIY 300as1/a1 Ice modules Class D amp. LSi15 with MM842 woofer upgrade, Nordost Blue Heaven and Unity interconnects.

    Upstairs 2 Channel Rig -
    Prometheus Ref. TVC passive pre, SAE A-205 Amp, Wiim pro streamer and Topping E50 DAC, California Audio Labs DX1 CD player, Von Schweikert VR3.5 speakers.

    Studio Rig - Scarlett 18i20(Gen3) DAW, Mac Mini, Aiyma A07 Max (BridgedX2), Totem Mites
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    Actually I had thought about a separate, but will build the 2 Ch down the road. This will be all new gear. One thing I would like to do is to trade the 1080 for a 5Ch amp or add a 3CH amp for HT. That way the Yamaha is not driving any of the speakers. I do like the flexibility the Yamaha has for HT.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,858
    edited February 2006
    LOL......now that you've got a taste, it's all downhill from here on out.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    Thanks Jesse, but it's a good downhill race.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • phoneisbusy
    phoneisbusy Posts: 867
    edited February 2006
    janmike wrote:
    I am sure that a lot of you have experienced going out and listening to great audio gear, then going home and turning your system on only to find that you are missing something. I just went through about 50 songs in the last 2 days and found that I need to upgrade in a bad way. Music sound like S&*T on my average system. I think the trip to Vancouver did me in.

    :eek:

    You'll eventually dry out from the rain... Still got the Fidelity Aucoustics on your mind? ;)

    Does your Yammie have a direct mode for your cd player? There's a definite difference when I have it enabled on my Pioneer.

    Dave
    Time is the best teacher. Unfortunately it kills all its students.
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    Yes it does. I find that mode sounds great. Only one problem, no sub in that mode.
    Hey Dave, if you are in the city drop by and have a listen to those FA speakers.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    I little positioning , a little tilting and things have improved somewhat. The mains are now a minimum 20" from any wall. The tilt is approx. 1/2". I know I missing that clarity that heard a while back. Appreciate all the suggestions guys.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • phoneisbusy
    phoneisbusy Posts: 867
    edited February 2006
    If I do get a chance to go downtown, I'll be sure to check out the FA(s). Too bad about the sub in direct mode. I was thinking the receiver's dsp options were mudding things up for you.

    Does the Yamaha have 5.1 or 7.1 direct inputs for SACD and such? Just wondering if a SACD with bass management would improve things (i.e. not sure, just speculating).

    Jesse, I respectfully disagree. It's now an uphill battle to afford the gear...
    :D

    Dave
    Time is the best teacher. Unfortunately it kills all its students.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,822
    edited February 2006
    1/2" may be to much...

    Im sitting like 4-5 feet from mine and I only have an 1/8" tilt... - you shouldnt need some extroidinary amount of tilt unless your sitting like a foot away... (and my tweeter is BELOW the midbass)

    You can OVERSHOOT the tweeter...

    And Im not going to lie to you, I thought the tweeter in my RTi70 lacked all kinds of clarity and detail (and the midbass)... so Im not going to sit here and tell you that placement and equipment is going to change that.

    The biggest upgrade I did was get new speakers...Ive been complaint free since.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    I'll play around with the tilt portion a little more. I agree, the new speakers will change my 2 CH sound quality.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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