Lets not talk about the room...

madmax

I notice that we talk about the room our equipment is in maybe once out of a thousand posts. I guess that is because we can all look at a piece of equipment and know about it but every room is different. That's too bad because the room has way more to do with the sound than the source, amplification or speakers. I just find it funny that we don't have a way of communicating our room characteristics to each other. We are ignoring the biggest variable in sound quality. I don't know where we start learning how to describe this stuff. It's too bad there isn't some sort of on-forum drawing tool or something, that would help.
madmax

Early B.

Had this same thought a few days ago, Max, but didn't start a thread because I don't know anything about room effects. Most of us are stuck with what we've got -- a den or living room or bedroom with furniture and carpet, so what's the big deal? It isn't practical to add acoustic panels, bass traps, etc., so there's no need to talk about it, is there?

What I'd like to know is how I can determine if my rooms are "acoustic friendly" (whatever that means), then get recommendatons on how to "fix" the problems. Don't you need fancy equipment and a Ph.D. in math and engineering to do this?

heiney9

Agree completely Max, but that is the area where we, for the most part, are less flexible for a variety of reasons. It's also the area that most people don't understand and know the least about.

A bit of a tangent here but, I see so many pics of people's sytems and the one thing that bother's me is there is usually a large entertainment center or a big screen bewteen the front speakers. The single best thing I did was to get low-boy cabinets which are fairly narrow and stack my equipment side by side. What this did was open up the space between the 2 speaks and not allow any reflections from a tall object inbetween. I also have my speaks over a foot from the wall behind them.

By doing this simple set-up the sound stage and dynamics opened up a great deal. It has taken me much time and effort to find the best spot possible. It's still not ideal because my couch is on the back wall and I sit in the sweet spot essentially with my head against the wall. I'd rather have the couch pulled out from the wall and get a little reflection off the back wall.

H9

jmierzur

Its funny you should mention this. I will be sewing the last two ‘socks’ for my tube traps tonight. When the traps are complete, I was going to take pictures of the room and update my ‘DIY Tube Trap’ thread in the Speaker forum and/or start another System Showcase entry. As you mention, the room is more important than most think.

If anyone is serious about acoustical treatments for their audio environment and has the option of using these products, there is more information available on the internet than you would ever want to read. My suggestion would be to read until you are comfortable with the ideas and concepts, and then make an informed decision. I have posted several links in anotherthread that has relevant information.

As H9 pointed out, there are many adjustments one can complete in order to improve their current setup that do not involve acoustic treatment.

Edit:

Pictures added to DIY Tube Trap thread in Speaker forum.

F1nut

Hmmmm.....I seem to recall having this conversation with Chuck earlier today.

steveinaz

Max
Good post. I think alot of people end up chasing their tails with equipment because of room inadequacies.

I've got a great set-up in the new house in that there is no back wall behind my listening position (at least not for another 22 feet). I really like what it has done to imaging and bass control. I also like the fact that the speakers are against an external wall; meaning that the wall is fully insulated, and 2x6 framed--less boom and echo. The last house had hollow internal drywall, that was shared with the master bedroom; 2x4 construction, no insulation and 24" spaced studs made for alot "boom" and hollow bass.

SCompRacer

Good thread Chuck. Normanality has done extensive measurements and acoustic treatments in his listening room. He's done a great job, and his system sounds fantastic in there now compared to when he started.

I'll ask him to pull himself away from work and chime in here.

madmax

F1nut wrote:

Hmmmm.....I seem to recall having this conversation with Chuck earlier today.

Just thought I would share it with the other nuts...


I think there are options if things are not right. As F1 told me, if his system sounds bad in the new house, he will move. Now that is dedication.

madmax

Normanality

So Rich calls to tell me to stop working and mention the world's worst listening room.

It's right here in Hillside. This room has successfully defeated Paradigm Reference V3's and LSi 15's. It's on the second floor of a cape cod style house so the listening side of the 10' x 11' room has sloped ceilings that meet the wall half way and a 4' wide dormer.
Bottom line....standing waves and strange reflections. While my tube amp worked wonders with the LSi 15's to tighten up the bass and remove the mud, there was still the issue of discontinuity between the bass, mids and highs.


What I found to work best for me was attack the area directly around the speakers.

I placed 2 GIK sound panels and 2 aurelex bass traps creating a mini-room around my speakers. This prevented strange reflections and tamed the bass immediately. It also helped to sell my LSi's to Michael (McLoki) and replace them with Carver AL III's and downfiring subwoofers. I don't need any other room treatments and the sound is amazing. I keep the speakers 20" from the back wall which balanced the bass also.

ohskigod

I know my basement is a train wreck in terms of room accoustics. the shape, walls, clutter, you name it, I'm sure its hurting, or at least not helping my 2 channel rig's performance. I just bought my house in September, and its on the to do list.


want to here your rig's bass response plummet? put it in my basement. its a hoot!

reeltrouble1

Lou just keep filling the room with junk and one day whamo it will all come together.

RT1

ohskigod

reeltrouble1 wrote:

Lou just keep filling the room with junk and one day whamo it will all come together.

RT1

you say to fill it, but my wife says to get rid of it.......I"M SO CONFUSED!!!

wingnut4772

Acoustic treatments have made a big difference in my sound as far as clarity, imaging and soundstaging in 2 channel.

sickicw

anyone here use realtraps?

Mazeroth

The first step is to treat the room. You can only treat a room so much. The second step is equilization. I use my laptop with an M-Audio Mobile Pre external USB soundcard and TrueRTA software. For EQ I use a combination of my Behringer DCX2496 and DEQ2496 (just get the DEQ2496; I use the DCX2496 as an active crossover). After about 8 hours of room measurements and adjusting settings on the EQs I have a near flat in room frequency response of +/- 3db from 10hz to 20khz. Before I applied EQ I had peaks and nulls as big as 8db. I really didn't want to add more than 6db of EQ and got lucky I didn't have any enormous EQ adjustments. The cool thing with the Behringers is I can turn the EQ off and on with a click of a button. The before and after are almost comical.

Joey_V

Nice setup Norm!

I agree.... room is often overlooked as most people dont see what kind of improvements (or detriments) a room can have on one's system. I'll be the first to admit, my room isnt the best for my speakers.... but I cant wait to move into my studio next school year where I have an entire living room that will be dedicated to my 2 channel system. It's going to be sweeeet!