help me with my first car audio system install

diego_sapphire

Hi all,
Bear with me as I learn to install my first system. I've got some pretty basic questions, that hopefully someone can take the time to at least point me in the right direction or even answer. Not that I can't search for it myself, I did but couldn't find exactly what I was looking for in these forums. So here goes...

Basically I'm putting together a system that consists of the following:

Kenwood X589 dash unit
2 Blaupunkt PA2150 "T" amps ( 2 channels X approx. 175-178 Watts rms at
4 Ohms, according to Birth certificate )
Blaupunkt TsC 660 component speakers for the front speakers (60 Watts
rms, 180 Watts "max")
Two Pioneer subs - 100 W minimum to 400 W "max" power

Now I know most of you are thinking that first there's nothing Polk in that system so why the hell are you here, and maybe you're thinking that the system is kinda weak too: to the first, I found this forum to be a helpful resource (and couldn't find other forums as useful as this one); to the second thought, well this is my first system and don't have alot of money to spend
on my ride (it's not a showstopper ride, just a Chevy Blazer).

I want to wire the two amps to the dash unit (it has 3 sets of 4V pre-amps). One amp (non-bridged) will power the two subs, and the other (again, non-bridged) will power the front component speakers.

The questions I have are mostly related to the wiring and power:
- Since the amps are 2 X 180 Watts RMS (by birth certificate), is that too much power to feed to the Blaupunkt component speakers? Their "max"
power is 180 Watts and they are 60 Watts rms.
- In a multi-amp install like this, I've read that I need a distribution block, where one side has the power wire running from the battery and the other end has a power wire for each amp, is this right? What gauges should the d-block be? I'm planning on using 4AWG for the battery to d-block run, but the blocks I saw on knukoncepts were 4AWG on one side and 8 AWG on the other - is this what I need? And where is the d-block physically installed, by the battery or near the amps?
- I've read that I need to use one ground wire for both amps - so does it run from the d-block or from the amps, or what?
- How do I install the dedicated amp power wire running from the dash
unit to the amps? Do I split it somehow near the amps?
- The rear speakers are going to stay factory. I'm assuming that I connect those wires at the dash unit, correct?
- What size fuse should I use if the two amps draw 31 and 32 amps respectively at the rated power (non-bridged)? I read that I add them so is a 60 amp fuse correct?

Thanks for reading and thanks even more for helping!
:cool:

skydeaner

Pretty much if you don't know how to set the gains on the amp properly that will be way too much power for that component set.

and check out this page for questions on the amp install.

diego_sapphire

skydeaner wrote:

Pretty much if you don't know how to set the gains on the amp properly that will be way too much power for that component set.

and check out this page for questions on the amp install.

the amps I have have a gain control range of 0.3-6.0Vrms, and I read in the manual that as an example "if the setting is a 0.3V, it only takes 0.3 Volts to the drive the amp to full output". So by setting the gains to a bit higher than 4V (because the preamp outputs are 4V) or maybe to the 6V position, I will prevent the amp from being over driven, and thus my speakers won't get blown out. Correct?

skydeaner

Yuppers your right about that. Start at the 6v position. And adjust down if you need to, but you probably wont. The system should sound good once it is all setup. How much did you get the amps for?

diego_sapphire

skydeaner wrote:

Yuppers your right about that. Start at the 6v position. And adjust down if you need to, but you probably wont. The system should sound good once it is all setup. How much did you get the amps for?

about $100 bucks each - I had read about this so-called "T" class amp and was impressed by the technology...they were on clearance on some website (techronics.com)... although as i search on froogle now, i've found them for about $70 on ebay! shoot! get 'em while you can, cuz for some stupid reason they don't make "T" class amps anymore!! although the reason for this might because they are looking to integrate amp technology into the head unit itself, as panasonic has done with their high end dash units (something like 100 Watts per channel RMS i think?!?!?!)

neomagus00

Let's see if i can't get 5 for 5 here...

Since the amps are 2 X 180 Watts RMS (by birth certificate), is that too much power to feed to the Blaupunkt component speakers? Their "max"
power is 180 Watts and they are 60 Watts rms.

yes, that is a lot of power, but by being sensible with the gains, you'll be fine... here is a detailed walkthrough, but you're basically going to turn the gain all the way down, turn the HU up to say 3/4 of its maximum, then turn the gain back up until your speakers start to move beyond their limits... if you play rock & roll or the like, this will be very easy to hear - the kick drum's sound will change to something that just sounds unhealthy...

In a multi-amp install like this, I've read that I need a distribution block, where one side has the power wire running from the battery and the other end has a power wire for each amp, is this right? What gauges should the d-block be? I'm planning on using 4AWG for the battery to d-block run, but the blocks I saw on knukoncepts were 4AWG on one side and 8 AWG on the other - is this what I need? And where is the d-block physically installed, by the battery or near the amps?

you could get away with 4 gauge from the battery, but if you can swing 2 gauge, that'd be better... 8 is too small, and 1/0 is too big... the d-block is installed near the amps, because it's much easier and cheaper and better to run the big cable from the battery back... so you're looking for a d-block that has three or more 4-gauge holes in it (don't concern yourself with whether they call them inputs or outputs, as long as the hole is there, you're golden)...

I've read that I need to use one ground wire for both amps - so does it run from the d-block or from the amps, or what?

you could run each ground wire to a separate ground d-block, or you can ground them directly to the same place... you don't have to use the same physical wire, just the same grounding point (and even that isn't totally necessary, but it's preferable)

How do I install the dedicated amp power wire running from the dash
unit to the amps? Do I split it somehow near the amps?

just run a little 18 gauge wire from that REM lead to the first amp, then a second from the REM port on the first amp to the second... that's the easiest way...

The rear speakers are going to stay factory. I'm assuming that I connect those wires at the dash unit, correct?

yes, assuming your HU will still drive those speakers AND the preamps at the same time (it should)...

What size fuse should I use if the two amps draw 31 and 32 amps respectively at the rated power (non-bridged)? I read that I add them so is a 60 amp fuse correct?

yes, a 60 or 80 amp fuse on the power line, 18" or less from the battery

MacLeod

180 watts RMS for speakers with max ratings of 180 watts is too much power regardless of the gain settings. If they were DLS or MB Quarts then I wouldnt be as worried but Blaupunked aint exactly considered the pinnacle of speaker makers. Speaker manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to figure out the ideal operating range for their equipment and if their speakers could handle 180 watts RMS then they wouldve rated them as such.

diego_sapphire

MacLeod wrote:

180 watts RMS for speakers with max ratings of 180 watts is too much power regardless of the gain settings. If they were DLS or MB Quarts then I wouldnt be as worried but Blaupunked aint exactly considered the pinnacle of speaker makers. Speaker manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to figure out the ideal operating range for their equipment and if their speakers could handle 180 watts RMS then they wouldve rated them as such.

so then if the amps say 180 Watts RMS, it's feeding that much power to the speakers regardless of the gains settings?

If I set the gains to 6 Vrms with 4V RCA inputs, doesn't that lower the RMS wattage being sent to the speakers?

neomagus00

yes, it does... i think that mac's point is that the amp still might be producing too much power at minimum gain...

in that case, you just have to be careful with the volume control on the HU...

diego_sapphire

neomagus00 wrote:

just run a little 18 gauge wire from that REM lead to the first amp, then a second from the REM port on the first amp to the second... that's the easiest way...

so then you're saying that the same REM input on the amp (it's called a turn-on "trigger" line input on the PA2150) will have one wire going into it from the dash unit, and another coming out of that same turn-on "trigger" line input and going into the second amp's turn-on "trigger" line input?

neomagus00 wrote:

yes, a 60 or 80 amp fuse on the power line, 18" or less from the battery

is it better to go for the higher or lower rated fuse? i'll be playing a lot of rock and also hip-hop with heavy bass, so I think the 80 A will allow for more headroom for the amps, right? My thinking is that with a 60 A fuse, wouldn't I be blowing that fuse anytime the bass hits hard? Or does the fuse only break if there is a short in the chassis?

and by the way, thank you a lot for your post, it moved my little project along quite a bit. same thanks goes to MacLeod, it gave a different perspective on the amp power-speaker connection...

diego_sapphire

neomagus00 wrote:

yes, it does... i think that mac's point is that the amp still might be producing too much power at minimum gain...

in that case, you just have to be careful with the volume control on the HU...

is there some way of measuring/calculating the Watts RMS being sent out if we have 4 V RCA inputs and a 6 V rms gain?

neomagus00

diego_sapphire wrote:

so then you're saying that the same REM input on the amp (it's called a turn-on "trigger" line input on the PA2150) will have one wire going into it from the dash unit, and another coming out of that same turn-on "trigger" line input and going into the second amp's turn-on "trigger" line input?

correct

and go with a 60A fuse - your amps aren't capable of putting out more than 30A apiece, so if you're ever drawing more than that, something is wrong...

and, well, if the amp is expecting 6V and is getting 2/3 of that, it should be putting out 2/3 its rated power, or ~120 watts

PoweredByDodge

i'm lazy - i'm not chiming in...

you know i've gotten terrible lately - the "all in one questions" i want nothing to do with - its like i've got forum ADD or something... i can only handle one thing at a time... or would that be reverse ADD ?

ah well - i better go pop some pills and become overmedicated so that i don't piss off my mental health care providers.

MacLeod

Im with ya Vin. Ive also noticed lately that if a post contains more than one question I kinda drift out too. Especially if the post is more than 2 paragraphs!

PoweredByDodge

we really should be better to newbies - but - its just so hard!

i've been spending more time trying to convince women to be my indentured servants... i'm having moderate success in that venture.

diego_sapphire

PoweredByDodge wrote:

we really should be better to newbies - but - its just so hard!

yeah i know, i've been there in other areas of my life...just remember it's happened to all of us at one point...and thanks to all who have helped so far...

MacLeod

Dont misunderstand, it has nothing to do with newbies. I just lose concentration after about the 2nd paragraph; either reading or writing. Doesnt matter who you are.

audiobliss

So, it sounds like the solution is to start 8 separate threads - one for each subject. That way you also get a higher post count.

MacLeod

OK, I think that just about settles it. You are the one person on here that has less of a life than me.

audiobliss

MacLeod wrote:

OK, I think that just about settles it. You are the one person on here that has less of a life than me.

:eek:

*ponders*

*comes to sad realization*

*is majorly depressed*

audiobliss

*realizes he just gained a +1 on his post count*

*is happy again*

neomagus00

or, +2, depending on how you look at it... and somehow, i have 60% of your posts, and i joined a month earlier

MacLeod

Yeah but you disappear for months at a time.

neomagus00

yeah, there is that... it usually involves finals or a vacation of some sort, so there is a good excuse...

and i actually kinda wondered if anyone ever noticed... good to know someone has

PoweredByDodge

if it wasn't for my virtually year long break from this place, i'd have all your asses beat in post counts

MacLeod

Yeah, thats what they all say.

Whos ya daddy Vince?