Is Today's Audio Gear Better Than Ever?

Early B.

There are several old timers on this forum, so I gotta ask y'all -- are today's audio components generally of higher quality at a lower price than they were, say 10 years ago? Twenty years ago? Thirty years ago?

Just wondering because it seems like there are tons of great deals to be had out there, but since I'm not an old timer, I don't have a point of reference. Seems to me, though, that higher quality can be had at a lesser cost today for the following possible reasons:

-- advances in technology
-- Internet brings the market to your doorstep
-- more choices
-- more people into high end audio
-- easier access to used gear (i.e., Internet)
-- crappy popular music so people are looking for better sound
-- home theater is driving an increase in the number of people looking and thinking about audio
-- people are carrying more credit card debt, a part of which is audio purchases

On a similar note, do speakers generally perform better at the relatively same price point than in the past?

Just trying to get a sense of what's happened in the past, what's happening now, and what the future holds.

Any thoughts?

joeparaski

I too have always wondered about that. Back in the 80's, there was the high end stuff that was "audio perfection" and it was like having the artist playing live in front of you. Well just how much more "live" can you get? How much better is todays' best compared to the best from 20 years ago?

And what about future audio gear? How much better will the guitar sound? And unless you are exposed to REAL instruments and KNOW what they are SUPPOSED to sound like, what is the point of getting the best audio gear?

joeparaski

I too have always wondered about that. Back in the 80's, there was the high end stuff that was "audio perfection" and it was like having the artist playing live in front of you. Well just how much more "live" can you get? How much better is todays' best compared to the best from 20 years ago?

And what about future audio gear? How much better will the guitar sound? And unless you are exposed to REAL instruments and KNOW what they are SUPPOSED to sound like, what is the point of getting the best audio gear?

joeparaski

oooops...double post.

aaharvel

gold Zero. no cliff-note version required.

the more popular surround gets, the lower quality gear you're going to see.
Regarding old-fashioned 2channel i think Obi-Wan said it best- "not as clumsy or random as a blaster. An elegant weapon for a more civilized age."

Early B.

Damn, Zero, that's a nice write-up. I actually read the whole thing.

It'll be interesting to see how those chip amps play out in the near future. If they sound "tubey" and can make 'em inexpensively with high quality parts, I'm in. (I'll still hold onto the ol' trusty tube amp, though.)

Danny Tse

Early B. wrote:

Are today's audio components generally of higher quality at a lower price than they were, say 10 years ago? Twenty years ago? Thirty years ago?

I was just going to start a thread about this. I was thinking about my Sony TA-AX520 stereo integrated amp that I purchased in 1987 as part of my first audio system. It wasn't a part of Sony's ES line or anything special, but this amp just keeps on playing everyday. I wonder how long it will go on.

I think we get more features nowadays, but I don't think the quality is as good as before. It seems everything is made to be disposable....or until the next surround sound format comes out. Yes, they are still some nice quality gear out there, but nowhere near as many as before.

Dennis Gardner

I think synergy of software, source, amp and transducers has always and will always be equal and independent of the technolgy with only the format changing. With that said, there is no denying that we can measure and engineer more complex and quieter gear today with seemingly better materials than ever before. What doesn't make sense is that when the synergy of a system is just right enough to be "magic" noone on earth can tell you behind a curtain what make, model, and year the gear is, only that it was "magic".

Some of the most musical amps and speakers ever made come from the 1950s, but didn't find the recognition until stereo recordings were mainstream.

Do we make better gear today? Sure we do, but it doesn't always sound like it.

bluebeard

Here's another "for what it's worth".
I was listening and getting used to the sound of a new Onkyo five channel AV receiver that listed for seven hundred bucks. For about six months there was something vaguely unsatisfying about it, but I think I forced myself to love her just because dinner was so expensive - sotospeak.

So lo, just the other day, I spot a slick little cutie on a Salvation Army store shelf. An NAD 7020 receiver - circa about 1980? 25 bucks. Looked mint, like it just came out of the box, so I took a chance on it not having been abused.

Holy crap! I fell in love with it. It's ten to twenty times the performer of my Onkyo, which is at risk of ending up on ebay. I never would have believed it if it weren't for my own ears.

My suspicion is that "box store" hifi has kind of gone the route of midsized automobiles from the big three. Cushy, deadened, packed with bells and whistles, power everything, and focus group tested to win approval in the
showroom.

In the Onkyo, that gives you op-amp controlled everything, five modes of equalization for orchestral, jazz, rock, movie sountracks, and christiforgetwhatelse. Maze after maze of integrated circuits under the dash piggybacking this or that function with control of the sound itself. No wonder.

But then again, I shouldn't confuse mass marketed stuff with what is actually available to the more discriminating. I think it's tempting to confuse the two because the "box store" stuff is so well marketed. We almost believe it's "audiophile" grade. It's better stuff than similarly marketed gear was twenty, thirty years ago, but it's really not going to satisfy a critical listener.

Of the truly audiophile grade stuff, there is certainly better available, and at decent prices, today than there was a few decades ago. As always, you just have to look a little harder for it. Design continues to evolve. Fantastic quality is even available to the average diy'er in the form of kits and plans for amps and speakers that were never available until recently. With the widespread use of free or low cost modeling software that
can be used on a laptop, a great deal of the plans available online are far more accurately designed than most of what was available off the shelf back in the day.

However, you are correct. There are wonderful deals out there right now. No doubt, my NAD was sent packing because its owner buckled to the siren song
of that monster AV surround, remote controlled, digital ready, optical output, EQ contour controlled, seven channel, toasts a perfect pop-tart, boat anchor that now leaves him vaguely dissatisfied. Lucky me!

Now if I can just upgrade the tweeter in my RT55i Polk speakers, I'll be happy for a little while.

danger boy

some of the hi end gear is still being made today.. and hopefully always will be. But as someone mentioned.. a lot of todays stereo/HT gear is made to only last a few years. Makers know that electronics change so fast.. that that new recevier you just purchased.. will in 6 months to a year be obsolete pretty much.

But true well made gear will give you plenty of satisfaction for years to come.. why do you think there are huge league of followers of some gear like Marantz, Integra, and Macintosh? It was built to last. Marantz of today is not the Marantz of the 60 and 70's that's for sure.

shack

bluebeard wrote:

my NAD was sent packing because its owner buckled to the siren song of that monster AV surround, remote controlled, digital ready, optical output, EQ contour controlled, seven channel, toasts a perfect pop-tart, boat anchor that now leaves him vaguely dissatisfied. Lucky me!

Now if I can just upgrade the tweeter in my RT55i Polk speakers, I'll be happy for a little while.

NAD is very good Mid-Fi gear. I know...I have quite a bit of it. Onkyo is at best mass market entry level gear for 90% of what they sell. Don't confuse AV and Hi-Fi as being mutually exclusive. There is some GREAT gear being produced for AV applications. Some of the most respected names in Hi-Fi are making hi-end AV gear...ie: Mcintosh, Linn, Bryston, Krell. Lexicon to name a few. As good as NAD is, there is some AV gear that is significantly better IMO.

Polk's replacement tweeter for the RT55i is now a silk dome vs the original Tri-lam (no longer available). If you feel the Tri-lam is to harsh then maybe Polk's relacement is an option. The RT55is are a fairly desirable speaker. I would sell them before I put a different brand tweeter in them, and find something you like better. That said....they are your speakers....

aaharvel

nevermind.

RAB

When top-notch quality is achieved in a particular product category, it is not likely to be easily dislodged.

My two channel system with Fried R II's and Great America Sound Amp/Preamp are still superb sounding. Also, tuners from the 70's are about as good as it gets - but most radio is so bad today that folks with new FM units don't know how bad they are.

I purchased an HT system with HK (DPR2005) and Polk (LC265i and LC65i) components. Starting the install process and decided to check everything out (temporarily) beforehand. With speakers in approximate planned locations but not yet in-the-walls I did some semi- critical listening. First, I was pleased with the basic sound and was impressed with the results going from 2.0 to 3.0 to 5.0 and cant wait till I get them properly installed. I know adding a sub will enhance the overall results even further. New technology has added good options for music modes over and above the added channels.

Finally, I must say that the biggest reason why I listened to music more in 2005 than ever before has a lot to do with connecting the Internet (MusicMatch) to my trusty old stereo (Fried/GAS) system. Storing my music on my computer hard disk and listening to new selections via MusicMatch is fantastic. This is why I am now interested in Roku and Slim Devices SqueezeBox.

steveinaz

Digital audio has definitely progressed, analog audio---I'm not so sure. I think digital is still in its infancy and we will see alot more progress towards "perfect sound forever." On the analog side, I think receivers built in the 70's were far more substantial than current breeds, mostly because back then seperates were strictly for the wealthy.

seo

bluebeard wrote:

So lo, just the other day, I spot a slick little cutie on a Salvation Army store shelf. An NAD 7020 receiver - circa about 1980? 25 bucks. Looked mint, like it just came out of the box, so I took a chance on it not having been abused.

Holy crap! I fell in love with it. It's ten to twenty times the performer of my Onkyo, which is at risk of ending up on ebay. I never would have believed it if it weren't for my own ears.

The 7020 is a classic NAD receiver. Bought mine new in 82 or 83. I still use it. $25 is a good deal. Fortunately for you, whoever donated it didn't know what they had. Neither did the Salvation Army.

Try it with some Polk SDA's, that little receiver will drive them with no problem.

TroyD

I think that the extreme high end has gotten better. I think that the middle of the road has actually suffered.

I think that musical reproduction technologies has improved but the quality of the music itself has, for the most part, plummetted.

BDT

MrBuhl

aaharvel wrote:

i think Obi-Wan said it best- "not as clumsy or random as a blaster. An elegant weapon for a more civilized age."

Thats just MINT!!

capecodder

TroyD wrote:

I think that the extreme high end has gotten better. I think that the middle of the road has actually suffered.

I think that musical reproduction technologies has improved but the quality of the music itself has, for the most part, plummetted.

BDT

Agree completely! The high end of audio will always be high end, and will stive for gains in quality because there is a market for it. Look at the proliferation of high end vodka's and the like. There wasn't even a market for it 15 years ago. Now there are dozens and they pretty much blow away the old stock. How many times do you open a magazine and see "The best (fill in the blank) ever" and then asking a huge sum. People will always pay for the best. Admittedly, often price does not reflect quality though.

Sadly, for audio its the middle and lower market that has suffered. The hey day for audio was through the late 70's. Pick up any reasonably good receiver or amp from that period and compare the weight to a late 90's amp advertising similar power output. The new amp feels and usually sounds like a toy. There may have been some improvements in certain components but they definitely don't build them like they used to. Just ask almost any quality repair technician.

I also agree with TroyD's last statement in a big way. We have become controlled by the music industry machine.

Tour2ma

In part the question is: How does nostalgia taint the audible experience? There's a great deal of classic gear out there that stood up for a very long time, but now has been relegated to the "great-for-its-time" category.

For example, the original AR-3a loudspeaker is an undeniable classic. While it's quite listenable, it can be easily beaten by the majority of modern speakers, some that even cost less than a nice pair of 3a's. Same can be said for old Marantz, Scott, HK, and other electronics.

On the other hand, old audio was designed by trail and error with listening as the determining factor as to whether the last change improved the prerformance or not. So it should be natural that many pieces do sound very good. Coincidentally (?) the "High-End" still uses this method to a great extent, as does Hi-Fi, albeit to a lesser extent.

Whereas the majority of the Mid-Fi and Low-Fi, cookie cutter stuff is computer generated. May be the reason behind Troy's observation that it is suffering the most. There is certainly a lot in those categories that seem "santitary" and devoid of any personality. Also may be why when a cheap piece comes out with some WOW included, e.g., the Toshiba 6190 (?)DVDP that shook things up for a while, it's such an event these days.

The NAD (which was a little higher than Mid-Fi when it first hit IMO) mentioned above, as well as most of our beloved old Polks, fell between the then and now examples above. Interestingly Polk has retained a good deal of listening in its design process.