McLoki - PRC - Opus equipment shootout (long)

McLoki

I had PRC (Patrick) and Opus (Kevin) over last night to test out some gear and speakers. It was a fun evening – this is the rundown of how it went.

PRC was interested in hearing the 15’s in a 2 channel mode with his cd player and integrated amp. (tube pre – SS amp). He brought over his CD Player, Amp, interconnects and bi-wire speaker cables. I do not remember the model numbers (or even brands) of his amp or cd player, but I am sure he will chime in with what they were if interested)

Opus brought over his new Rotel pre-amp for me to try out. I am currently using an Onkyo 777 AVR as my pre/pro and a Cinepro amp for all channels, so I am ready to upgrade. (unfortunately, I expended all WAF purchase points buying my LSi15’s right after Christmas and a new Hitachi TV on New Years. Lets just say I have plenty of time for research on this one…. 

Opus had seen/heard my system before, but not with the LSi7’s in the rear positions, or LSi15’s up front. (plus the TV was new) PRC had not been over before so my entire setup was new to him.

We started with the opening scene (track 3?) of master and commander. We all agreed that it sounded very good and set a good baseline for things to come. PRC hooked up his equipment to the LSi15’s and played a number of CD’s (including Pink Floyd, Trans Siberian Orchestra, and a number of other CD’s) His amp is 100watt SS (with an integrated tube pre-amp stage) and it sounded great with the 15’s. The bass was very good, mids and highs were awesome. It sounded better than I had ever really heard my system. (I don’t do a lot of 2 channel listening) The local American store (the only store locally that carries the LSi line) should send me a commission because I think I may have given them a sale… 

Next up we hooked up PRC’s cd player to the Rotel pre-amp and compared it to my 3960 with madmax mods. This was very close. The bass was a little better defined with the actual CD player, but the highs could get just a little harsh. (in comparison) The 3960’s bass seemed a little thick and not as well defined, but the highs were more laid back. Almost had a tube like smoothness to them. It was a toss up either way to what you liked, but I was very happy with the way the 3960 sounded in comparison and for my uses – I was glad to see there was no real need to upgrade soon. One note – the CD player did cause a nasty hum with my system that we never did quite sort out so that could have been part of its issues with the highs. (we compensated for the hum by turning it up louder…  )

We then hooked my 3960 up to my Onkyo AVR to compare it to the Rotel. (hooked up with Right / Left cables – not a digital cable so decoding was done in the 3960) We were listening to a couple tracks from my Trans-Siberian Christmas CD. There is quite a bit of bass and detail going on making it a good demo disk. Hooked up to the Onkyo AVR it was like there was a heavy blanket thrown over the speakers. Not only was there less detail, but the actual tone of the voices changed. It was not a subtle thing and you didn’t have to strain to listen for the difference. None of our comments started with “I thought” we were all amazed at how bad the Onkyo compared to the Rotel Pre-amp. (not just that it was better, but how much better it was and how obvious the change was.) It was literally as much of a change as I heard moving from my RM6600’s to my LSi speakers. It was that obvious.

Next up was testing out a DTS track. After a frantic search for an optical cable (I normally use Coax, so there was not one hooked up) we played the scene from War of the Worlds in DTS where the first craft comes out from under the street. (as well as the first horn, and people getting vaporized) The Rotel was up first and it sounded incredible. All the sound effects just sounded real. From the bass of the street getting ripped up, to the glass breaking. All channels sounded great and the sound was very detailed and enveloping. It was as 3-D sounding as I have ever heard a 5.1 setup get. (granted I have not heard a lot of other setups that were well setup in a home environment)

Next up was the Onkyo AVR. It was a repeat of the CD performance and was just as dramatic. Most of the sound was still there, but very little of the detail. The 3-D effect was completely gone. We were back to watching a movie rather than experiencing the action. We started the evening agreeing that my entire setup sounded really good, we ended it thinking that I was one component away from converting my sound from crap to awesome. I feel like I should apologize to everyone that has heard my system because now I know how crappy it sounds. It will be a long wait while I research my pre-amp and wait for funds to come together, but there will be much rejoicing when it arrives. I am no longer in the camp of just use your AVR as a pre and get a decent amp. I had no idea of what my system was capable of. Now that I do – I want it to sound like that all the time. I guess I have something to look forward to.

It was a fun evening swapping gear and listening to different equipment, movies and music. PRC mentioned that he might bring his RTi’s over sometime to compare them to the LSi’s and I can’t wait to listen some more. It was truly the best part of being on a board like this. Getting together and sharing experiences and equipment with others passionate about audio is a great way to pass the time. It was great meeting PRC and getting together with Opus again. Next time I will plan on some pizza.

Michael

2+2

Thx for sharing....yes, like you, I found that the preamp section made a huge difference....when I went from HK230 as pre/pro to Rotel 1068.....very very different sound...not all good but overall better.....

opus

First off I would like to thank McLoki ( Michael) for the hospitality and open house for our demo. I work with PRC and it is a awesome resource to get together with others and bounce ideas and sound of each other and get a chance to hear a variety of brands in a real world eniviroment. PRC brought over a Jolida hybrid and a Music Hall CDP. (model #'s ???).

To be honest I came into the evening with a low expectation forthe Lsi 15 and left shaking my head and looking on the net for a good deal on them. I had a sound in my head of what a great sounding speaker was from demoing several more expensive and "snobbier" speaker lines and did not expect the Polks to sound this way. With the Jolida and some Nora Jones running through the 15's I heard this sound and was left with the feeling that the Polks could and will give me the sound I want when matched with the proper gear. We/I found that by changing amps and sources you can tailor the Polks to fit you personal preferences.

I would like to apologize for almost derailing the DTS/ HT demo by not bringing my remote control to change the input from optical to coax. :rolleyes:. After getting it hooked up I was pleasantly suprised at the obvious benefit of the pre amp and a generous amount of ampage( Cinepro 360, i think).

All in all a great evening and a great demo. Everybody had a piece of gear that performed above and beyond. And I'm sure everyone went home and logged onto to Audiogon to continue the disease.

And for the record McLoki, YOUR CINEPRO KICKS **** :cool: !!


thanks kevin

Ricardo

McLoki wrote:

...... I feel like I should apologize to everyone that has heard my system because now I know how crappy it sounds.....

Michael,

I think it sounded pretty good even with the 7's all around...the thing is that there is always something better, and once you know it, you won't stop until you get it..

MrNightly

You guys are making the itch start again... NO MORE!!! I.. .CAN'T... AFFORD... oh never mind. Give in to the DARK side.

opus

MrNightly wrote:

You guys are making the itch start again... NO MORE!!! I.. .CAN'T... AFFORD... oh never mind. Give in to the DARK side.

Careful buddy the Rotel might not fit under your bed.

MrNightly

HA!!! That actually made me laugh out loud. Funny guy. No, things are "Back to Normal." I have no idea what hit her. She actually wants to play with the remote these days, and says, "It's cool. " What can i say?

But ya, when you upgrade to something else, keep me in mind!!!

PRC

I wanted to say thank you to Micheal. This is a great example of one Polkie helping another. He took the time to have me over to his home and test my Jolida 1501RC. I was truley impressed with his 600 wpc HT system. My personal highlight were the LSi's. They were detailed and clear. The highs were not bright or forward. I was impressed with the base. I have never heard a woofer woofer pointed sideways, but it was not muddy and handled the lows well.

This all started with me wanting to upgrade my RTi 10's. I am going to keep this short because my computer is crapping out. I just lost the long version of this post.

I tested (with my 1501 and mmf cd-25) B & W 604's and 703's, Canton Ergo 900 DC's and Micheals LSi's.

The B & W's were a bit to forward for me. I may get some flack, but I bought the Canton's. It was a toss up between the LSi's and the Cantons. The Cantons had a little deeper sound stage, but a wider stage than the LSi's. Clearity and detail they were close, but I would give a slight edge to the Canton's. I would give base smoothness and tone to the LSi's. I did prefer the solid wood finish as apposed to the gloss black.

Sorry for the lack of detail in my post, I'm trying to get it out before my computer crashes

Thank you Micheal

McLoki

PRC wrote:

I may get some flack, but I bought the Canton's. It was a toss up between the LSi's and the Cantons. The Cantons had a little deeper sound stage, but a wider stage than the LSi's. Clearity and detail they were close, but I would give a slight edge to the Canton's. I would give base smoothness and tone to the LSi's. I did prefer the solid wood finish as apposed to the gloss black.

Congrats on the new speakers. You will have to bring them over (or I can bring over the LSi15's) and we can do a side by side shootout between them. What model Canton did you get? The only ones they had when I was there (EDI right?) was a small set of bookshelves. I thought they were ok, but would have liked to hear some larger ones.

So, now that you have them home - is it the sound you were looking for? You ready to give in to the HT setup yet or still staying in the 2 chanel world for awhile?

Michael

PRC

The side by side would be cool. It was a toss up between the both. The speakers are Ergo 900 DC. They are now called 609 DC. www.canton.de
This is the sound I am looking for. The sound stage is good. Their is a lot of detail and the mids are defined. No HT unless I come across 5K. Freak thing, I hooked up my Jolida and it shorted out. No clue on that one. I was thinking that maybe it condensated due to the cold in the car and when I turned it on something popped. I gave it to EDI and the gave me a loaner (how about that). I will have you and Kevin over when I get dialed in. Thanks again.

Patrick

McLoki wrote:

Congrats on the new speakers. You will have to bring them over (or I can bring over the LSi15's) and we can do a side by side shootout between them. What model Canton did you get? The only ones they had when I was there (EDI right?) was a small set of bookshelves. I thought they were ok, but would have liked to hear some larger ones.

So, now that you have them home - is it the sound you were looking for? You ready to give in to the HT setup yet or still staying in the 2 chanel world for awhile?

Michael

McLoki

Looks nice, I can't wait to hear them.....

I just had one other thought on the Rotel VS Onkyo on my setup. The Rotel beat the pants off the Onkyo in my setup. One other thing that just came to mind this morning is that was with the Onkyo set up properly for my environment and Nothing was set on the Rotel. (it was all set according to Opus's HT settings) so Speaker size, crossover settings, volume levels and speaker distances were all set for another theater, not mine. The sound would only improve with those settings being set up correctly. We may have only gotten a glimpse of how much better the Rotel is than the Onkyo. Damn, I want a new pre/pro now, its going to be a long year......

Michael

PRC

I was a damn impressive glimpse

PRC

McLoki wrote:

Looks nice, I can't wait to hear them.....

The sound would only improve with those settings being set up correctly. We may have only gotten a glimpse of how much better the Rotel is than the Onkyo. Damn, I want a new pre/pro now, its going to be a long year......

Michael