Ideas on new stereo system

glemay

Hey guys, I got a few questions regarding a new stereo system for my boat. Currently I have a Pioneer DEH-P4700MP for the deck. Now, this deck has 2 sets of pre-outs, but nothing for a sub. For the stereo system, I want to have a 4-channel amp running 4 6-1/2 speakers and then a mono amp running a 10 or 12 inch sub. Is there anyway I can hook all this up to my deck?

Thanks

glemay

glemay

I think I found my answer but not sure. Is this what the line outs are for?

MacLeod

That head unit has 2 sets of preamp outputs. You can still use a 4 channel and mono amp by either hooking up a Y adapter to the rear channels or using the preamp outputs on the amp if it has em. Most amps do so this may be a way to go.

Another way would be to use a 2 channel amp to power all 4 speakers and then a sub amp. That way each amp would have a dedicated set of preamps and you could fade between them.

glemay

Thanks for clearing that up MacLeod. What do you guys think about 5-channel amplifiers vs a comparable 4-channel plus mono amplifier combination? Would a 5-channel amplifier work with my deck?

MacLeod

Im a big fan of 5 channel amps because theyre so much more practical, easy to install and take up less room. The downside to them is theyre not usually as powerful as you could get with a seperate amp.

Kicker makes a pretty stout one with 85x4 + 425x1. Crossfire makes one at 50x4 + 300x1 but Crossfires are so underrated you can bet its more like 70x4 + 375x1. You can also get a big 4 channel amp. Something like a 100x4 would put about 100 to each speaker and then 400 to the sub.

glemay

You guys have any suggestions for my setup? I need four speakers, a subwoofer and amplification, I already have a deck. This is going in my boat, so I dont wanna spend a whole pile of money, just wanna have some tunes for out on the water.

Do you guys think the subwoofer is necessary? I'm asking because I'm not sure if I have a place to put it yet.

Thanks

MacLeod

I assume youre going to be running the DB 6.5's and sub as they are marine certified.

A good choice would be this Orion 4004 for $150! This is a $350 amp but is on year end clearance at Sounddomain and is a steal at that price. Itll make 100 watts per channel at 2 ohms stereo and you could bridge the rear channels to run a DB104 with no problem getting a little over 200 watts.

This would be the loudest system around but it would power all the speakers well and sound good. Best of all, its a high end amp for dirt cheap, its only one amp to run the entire system so it will take up less room, be easier to install and waterproof and it will work with the 2 sets of preamps on your Pioneer.

glemay

Just curious, but how much of a load will this put on a battery? And to hook up the four speakers, would I just be hooking 2 speakers up to one channel and the other 2 to the other? And would I be able to crossover the speakers so the bass is going to the sub only?

MacLeod

Im not familiar with a boats battery but a typical car battery could handle this load for a couple hours but thats it. Youd be cranking out over 400 watts and drawing probably 40 amps of juice so it will be a substantial draw.

glemay

What about the crossover thing?

MacLeod

Crossover? The speakers have their own crossover so you wont have to worry about them. The sub will have a low pass filter you can use for the sub. Thats all youll need.

glemay

What do you mean about the sub? And as for the speakers, I meant crossover as in cross them over at like 80Hz so that any thing below that goes to the sub only.

And as for bridging the rear channels for the sub, how would that be done? Would I need a DVC sub, or a would a SVC sub work with a positve from one channel and a negative from the other? How would the amp be setup if the rear channels were to be bridged and the front channel full?

Just want to make sure I can do what I want with the amp before I purchase.

Thanks

MacLeod

Ah! LOL! I thought you meant how much of a draw on the battery would the crossovers be!

The 6.5's should be crossed over about 80 to start with and then adjust from there to what sounds right. A low pass filter is just a crossover. Say its a low pass filter at 80 Hz then it lets only frequencies below 80 Hz pass thru.

For bridging, youd take a SVC sub and hook the subs negative to the amps rear left negative and the subs positive to the amps rear right positive. The amp will actually show you more than likely right above the speaker terminals which ones are which in order to bridge.

glemay

So, just to make sure. You are saying that I can use the HP/LP filters on the amp to redirect all bass below 80Hz to the subwoofer and away from the 6.5 speakers, right? And your are also saying that even with four speakers hooked up to the front channels, I can use the rear channels in a bridged mode for the sub?

Sorry for all the questions, I feel repetitive.

glemay

Does anyone know the answer to my question above?

Thanks

audiobliss

glemay wrote:

This is going in my boat, so I dont wanna spend a whole pile of money, just wanna have some tunes for out on the water.

Too late. You done bought the boat already.

If you're stuck with using that head unit and having to make do with its two sets of pre-outs, Mac's idea isn't a bad one: get a powerful 4-channel amp and use the front channels to power all four of the 6.5" speakers, and then bridge the rear channels to power the sub. And yes, you'll definitely want a sub. It's usually optional in the home audio world, but it's pretty much mandatory in a car.

It would be nice to know exactly what speakers we're talking about. I assume that you're going to be using two pairs of the Polk db650 coaxial speakers. These handle 60 watts, so if you get a good 100wpc amp that'll probably be pushing about 115-120, you'll be sitting pretty to power two db650's on each channel. Thus, you could get all four on just the front two channels.

As for how you would want to do that, you would need to connect the front left and rear left speakers to the front left channel, and the front right and rear right speakers to the front right channel, so you would still have stereo. If you did it the other way (front speakers on left channel and back speakers on right channel or visa versa), you would be able to control fade (with the HU's balance controls), but you would not have stereo. So, you pretty much have to do it the first way.

If you get a powerful four channel amp for this, you would then be left with the rear channels to power the sub. As Mac has already said, it's fine to power speakers with the front channels and bridge the rear for a sub.

Sorry to say, though that Orion is a good amp and a steal at that price, it's not powerful enough to work for you in this situation. If you're going to be using just the front channels for your four main speakers, (since they present a 4 ohm load) each would only be getting about 30-40 watts, whereas 60-70 would be a lot better.

However, when you connect two speakers to one channel, maybe you could do that so as to present a 2ohm load, increasing the amp's output. If you can do that and it doesn't have any adverse affects pushing an amp that far for the highs, that Orion is probably a pretty good bet.

And also as Mac said, don't worry about the crossover. I would assume the db650's come with a crossover with a hp and lp for the mid and a hp for the tweeter.

Hope that helps some.

glemay

Audiobliss, yeah I guess you are right about the money part but you gotta pay to play! As far as which speakers, yes I am thinking about using the Polk Audio DB650's. And I think that MacLeod was suggesting hooking them up to present a 2 ohm load to the amp. And as for the crossover for the DB650's are you saying they come with an additional unit that is wired in between the speaker and the amp? Is it variable or something? Can someone clarify this? I looked on the Polk Audio site and it says:

High and low pass filters (Crossovers), deliver clearer, more accurate midrange and glare-free highs, with more natural-imaging than other speakers in this class that use single stage high-pass only filters.

I'm not 100% sure what this means, if its just regular crossovers like anyother speaker or if it's some sort of unit to cut the low frequencies.

audiobliss

It's just what comes on I would say every other coaxial speaker out there. It's nothing fancy, but nothing less than what you need. It's built-in to the speaker, and is just basic filters for the mid and tweeter.

This is how it would work:
There is a low pass filter for the mid at, say (and I really have no idea) 15,000Hz. Everything below this (hence the lowpass) is let through. Then there's a high pass filter at 80Hz; everything above that goes through. So, your mid is getting frequencies from 80Hz to 15,000Hz. For the tweeter there is a high pass filter at, in this example, 15,000Hz. Everything above that is let through. For the tweeter (unless I'm mistaken) there is no low pass filter to cap off the frequencies; the tweeter's natural roll-off point (point at which it stops reproducing frequencies audibly) comes into play.

glemay

Audiobliss,

Okay, I understand now, thanks. What about Hifonics amplifier?

To use a 5-channel amplifier do you need to have a sub pre-out on the deck?

Thanks

amulford

No. The amp will have a low pass filter of it's own for the sub. You should be able to use a pass thru or a "y" splitter to feed signal.

glemay

Ok, forget the five channel amplifier. Out of the following amplifiers which would you guys use in my application?

Orion 4004 @ $149.95
Hifonics TX4405 @ $119.00

If you have any others suggestions in the same price range lets hear em.

The cheaper the better, I dont need to go overkill, just need enough.

Thanks

glemay

glemay

Ok, I think I'm going to go with the Hifonics TX4405. This amplifier is still pretty good right?

I am planning on running 2 pairs of these Pioneer speakers and this sub . I know its not Polk Audio, but I've had good experience with Pioneer.

Will the Hifonics TX4405 be capable of running two pairs of the pioneers on the front channels along with the pioneer sub bridged on the rear channels?

Is onlinecarstereo.com a good place to buy?

Thanks

glemay

Anyone???

MacLeod

Dude, you have to get some patience. Most of us dont check in here every 10 minutes so can take some time for us to respond.


Now, Onlinecarstereo is not a good place to buy. They are an unauthorized retailer which means theyre selling remanufactured, refurbished, repaired and God knows what else. Buy from Sounddomain.com or Crutchfield. Their prices will be a little higher but for that extra cash you get the peace of mind knowing youre buying new-in-box gear, straight from the manufacturer with the full backing and warranty of the manufacturer.

Now, out of those two amplifiers, the Orion is a far superior amp. That is normally a $350-400 amp but since its being closed out you can get it for a song and a dance. Jump on it.

1996blackmax

Good advice on going the authorized way. Like Mac said, at least you know your gear is what it's supposed to be.

glemay

Thanks you guys, and sorry MacLeod if I was a little impatient.

neomagus00

it happens...

btw, i have a hifonics amp, i think you'll be pleased...

PoweredByDodge

i wouldn't bother with a sub...

i'd get 4 high power 6x9's and then a 2 channel amp that's rated at 250 or more x 2 @ 2 ohms stereo...

glemay

Poweredbydodge,

I like this suggestion, it would be a lot easier. But would I be able to do this with 2 pairs of 6-1/2 instead of 6x9s. Would bass still be ok? I don't really want to cut holes for 6x9s, I rather round holes. But let me know what you guys think.

Thanks

PoweredByDodge

the reason i suggested 6x9's is that the surface area of the cone is much greater than that of just a 61/2 inch speaker. hence, more "umph".

Audiobahn ASM69N is a sickly heavy duty 6x9 that'll take over 200 watts rms, and has a horn loaded compression tweeter as opposed to a textile dome. the result is wacky loud output with decent sound quality. for open spaces, horns are the kings.

I have 4 of them loaded in the back of my truck, I DJ'ed the local block party by taking the tonneau cover off the back of the truck, plugging a mixer into the head units aux-input, and juicing it up. with only about 60 watts each going to them, you could hear it well over 100 yards away in any direction.

http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?icatid=7849&stk_code=audams69n&svbname=403

63 bucks a pair at etronics... msrp is like 150 or something i think.

<img src="http://www.sonicelectronix.com/images/normal/ams69n.jpg"&gt;

you can try 6 1/2's, but i'd cut the holes personally, it's worth it.

here's a link ot the 6.5" version ---- Audiobahn AMS60N
www.carstereoworld.com

audiobliss

Not at all a fan of Audiobahn, and I generally like round components and a sub over 6x9's, but given your situation, I'd look into those Audiobahn 6x9's. More bass, and the horn loaded tweeter will be much louder, something that'll be nice in a big open area such as a boat. And give the application, strict SQ isn't the only goal.

I think I'd look into that.