Tube preamp with solid state power amp?

outlander
outlander Posts: 218
edited January 2006 in Electronics
Just curious if anyone is running a tube preamp with a solid state power amp. I’m aware of the advantages and disadvantages of tube and SS amps. It seems that the tube pre with the SS power amp may be the ideal setup, smooth tube sound with solid state punch?
O
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  • hoosier21
    hoosier21 Posts: 4,413
    edited January 2006
    yep, many on here have that set up
    Dodd - Battery Preamp
    Monarchy Audio SE100 Delux - mono power amps
    Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
    ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
    DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
    Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
    Outlaw ICBM - crossover
    Beringher BFD - sub eq

    Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!

    "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
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  • Shizelbs
    Shizelbs Posts: 7,433
    edited January 2006
    Tons of us are running that combo. I am one of them.
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited January 2006
    +1 Audible Illusions M-3(tube pre),, Belles 350a(ss power) :cool:
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • Gaara
    Gaara Posts: 2,415
    edited January 2006
    Modwright SWL9.0SE with a Earthquake Cinenova Grande, and a Jolia JD-100 as source. Works like magic.
    The Basement HT
    PC Rig
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  • outlander
    outlander Posts: 218
    edited January 2006
    Do you guys find the tube pre takes some of the harshness out of the SS amp? I'd like to mellow out my system a little but not sure I want the flat sound of a full tube setup, this my be the answer.
    O
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited January 2006
    Yup...

    ...and that Yammie Pre may be the issue. Rotels are pretty smooth.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    edited January 2006
    Me too........
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
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  • outlander
    outlander Posts: 218
    edited January 2006
    I've been thinking about replacing the Yamaha with a tube preamp. Can you guys recommend a good 5.1 HT tube preamp / processor, is there such a thing?
    O
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  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited January 2006
    I think fosgate makes a surround tube pre. other than that you're SOL, as far as I know.

    You can always switch it around and go SS pre w/ tube amps. I think someone here was doing that with some jolida's for a 5.1
    Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
    Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565
    Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8
    Backburner:Krell KAV-300i
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited January 2006
    I don't think you have to go tube to smooth out your system. Give a Rotel Pre-Pro a listen... or B&K.

    I remember the Stereophile interview with Fosgate... quite a character.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited January 2006
    The SS/tube combo theory ain't set in stone. Just depends on what you're looking for.

    I had a full SS setup with an Odyssey Stratos amp and MF pre. Went with a tube int. amp and never looked back. My 60 watt tube amp has as much power and slam as the badass 150 wpc Odyssey did (actually better IMO), so I'm not sure what the SS amp advantage thing is all about. Like everything else in the hifi world, I suppose it depends on the synergy of the components you buy and your personal tastes.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • Rich64
    Rich64 Posts: 51
    edited January 2006
    Get a decent SS power amp that can drive low impedence loads, and get a tube preamp. I guarantee you'll never look back. The tubes won't sound flat,,, just smoother and mellow. About twelve years ago, this is what knocked me on my a$$ ... It was absolutely the "Holy Grail" that I was searching for. I'm running a modded Hafler DH500 power amp, and a McIntosh C20 tube peramp. I've been in heaven ever since!!
    Rich

    SDA SRS 1.2tl
    Moded Hafler DH500
    McIntosh C20
    Rega Planet
    Magnum Dynalab MD 100
    Vampire Wire

    Mits 65"
    Denon AVR 3803
    Polk Cs400
    Polk Monitor 4.6
    KLH sub
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited January 2006
    Not sure why you would do 5.1 tubes, many here use a tube-pre with a HT pass. Of course we are doing 2 channel music. Unless you want to do multi channel high rez with tubes this is a very cost effective way to use a receiver and a pre together with the same amp. My ears tell me the pre is the place to put the tubes. There are definetly tube amps that can provide the slam you may be looking for but for now my rigs are tube pre/ss amp.

    RT1

    RT1
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    edited January 2006
    reeltrouble1 wrote:
    There are definetly tube amps that can provide the slam you may be looking for.......................

    But at what cost for 5-7 channels? I got decent 5-7 channel sound with good speakers and SS amps, but got great 2 channel sound with the tube preamp and my choice of tube or SS amp.

    Unless you got a shitload of Google stock to unload, multi channel tube sound will have to be less than quality just to get that many channels powered. I guess a 7 channel setup with ASL Hurricanes or Cary V12s all around would even heat the whole house for around what, $15-$25k? That would have some slam!!
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited January 2006
    Dennis,

    I was thinking two channel. I really cant imagine hearing a benefit for doing tubes on surround.

    RT1
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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited January 2006
    Ok, maybe not everybody but as you've found a lot of us are. I'm another tube pre and SS amps guy. However, I never found my SS amps to be harsh though even with a SS pre on them. :)
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    edited January 2006
    reeltrouble1 wrote:
    Dennis,

    I was thinking two channel. I really cant imagine hearing a benefit for doing tubes on surround.

    RT1

    I agree RT1, I was responding to outlanders request "Can you guys recommend a good 5.1 HT tube preamp / processor, is there such a thing?"

    5.1 is about good processing, channel balance and bass slam. Smooth tube sound just isn't a good mark of a nice multi channel setup.
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
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  • amulford
    amulford Posts: 5,020
    edited January 2006
    Dennis Gardner wrote:
    Smooth tube sound just isn't a good mark of a nice multi channel setup.

    You haven't found the right multi channel amp yet ;)

    Another tube pre/sand **** here. Only for music, though...
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    edited January 2006
    amulford wrote:
    You haven't found the right multi channel amp yet ;)

    Another tube pre/sand **** here. Only for music, though...

    No, I can't afford it..............I would mount tubes on my wifes tah-tahs if I thought it would make them better. ;)
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
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  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited January 2006
    Dennis Gardner wrote:
    No, I can't afford it..............I would mount tubes on my wifes tah-tahs if I thought it would make them better. ;)


    Funny, I mounted my tube on my wife's... on second thought, I'm just gonna stop that right there.
    Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
    Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565
    Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8
    Backburner:Krell KAV-300i
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  • beardog03
    beardog03 Posts: 5,550
    edited January 2006
    I run a SS amp..Parasound HCA-3500, and a tube pre..Cary 2002, with a tube CDP..Jolida..

    It sounds sooo much better than just SS...IMO

    The Cary has a theater pass through for HT..
    I haven`t used it yet, but I`m sure it will sound pretty damn good when I do
    Cary SLP-98L F1 DC Pre Amp (Jag Blue)
    Parasound HCA-3500
    Cary Audio V12 amp (Jag Red)
    Polk Audio Xm Reciever (Autographed by THE MAN Himself) :cool:
    Magnum Dynalab MD-102 Analog Tuna
    Jolida JD-100 CDP
    Polk Audio LSi9 Speaks (ebony)
    SVS PC-Ultra Sub
    AQ Bedrock Speaker Cables (Bi-Wired)
    MIT Shotgun S1 I/C`s
    AQ Black Thunder Sub Cables
    PS Audio Plus Power Cords
    Magnum Dynalab ST-2 FM Antenna
    Sanus Cherry wood Speak Stands
    Adona AV45CS3 / 3 Tier Rack (Black /Gold)

    :cool:
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited January 2006
    I've got gear to do both, but right now I'm 100% SS. I'm using NAD gear which is on the "laid back" end of the spectrum so harshness is not an issue for me.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • outlander
    outlander Posts: 218
    edited January 2006
    I ended up tying my Adcom amp and pre amp into my HT set with a A-B speaker selector switch and moving my turntable over to my HT room. So in 2ch I use the Adcom’s for the front mains and for HT the Yamaha/Rotel power all five speakers. This provides a nice improvement for 2ch listening and that’s where I spend most of my time. I also like the idea that the Adcom pre has a real nice phono section. Thanks for all the info guys, I can see a nice 2ch tube pre and a Rotel pre-pro in the future.
    O
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  • outlander
    outlander Posts: 218
    edited January 2006
    With my above comment being made, who manufactures a nice 2ch tube preamp that I can pick up on Audiogone for a somewhat reasonable price?
    O
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  • scottyf
    scottyf Posts: 129
    edited January 2006
    I would recommend a used Counterpoint 3.1 or 3000. For years I ran a Counterpoint 3000 with my Threshold or Perreaux amp.

    More recently, I had Mike Elliott of AltaVistaAudio.com modify my Counterpoint and picked up a SA-100 amp (hybrid tube/ss amp) and had him modify that. He's the original designer for Counterpoint. I run the Polk LSi15's and it is the finest sounding system I've ever owned.

    The phono sections are very good in the Counterpoint preamps. Also, the tube compliment is easy to deal with -- 3 6DJ8's in the 3.1 and 3 6DJ8's/one 6CA4 in the 3000. I would suggest trying some old Amperex tubes with the preamps.....they really make them sing!

    Another good choice would be the Melos SHA-GOLD. It doesn't have a phono section, has a remote, and only uses two 6DJ8's. It also sounds fabulous -- as good as the unmodified Counterpoint, but not as good as the modified one.

    I've seen 3.1's going for $350, 3000's going for $500-800, and SHA-Gold's going for $500-600 on Audiogon. Ebay also sees these preamps. I've also had experience with the Counterpoint 5.1 and it sounds even better than the 3.1 or 3000 in stock form, so if you see one of these at a good price, jump on it.

    Just my two cents......

    HOME: VPI Classic/Grado Reference Master, EVS-modified Oppo BP83, Bryston DAC, Counterpoint 3000/SA-100 modified by Alta Vista, Polk LSi15

    TRUCK: Pioneer 8600MP, Soundstream 300SX, pr of Xtant 1001i, Autotek SS490.2, Polk SR6500, Polk MMC6500, pr of Polk MM2084DVC
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  • Skynut
    Skynut Posts: 2,967
    edited January 2006
    So the consensus is that tubes would not sound as good as solid state in a home theater system?
    I have allways wondered about this.
    Skynut
    SOPA® Founder
    The system Almost there
    DVD Onkyo DV-SP802
    Sunfire Theater Grand II
    Sherbourn 7/2100
    Panamax 5510 power conditioner (for electronics)
    2 PSAudio UPC-200 power conditioners (for amps)
    Front L/R RT3000p (Bi-Wired)
    Center CS1000p (Bi-Wired) (under the television)
    Center RT2000p's (Bi-Wired) (on each side of the television)
    Sur FX1000
    SVS ultra plus 2

    www.ShadetreesMachineShop.com
    Thanks for looking
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  • outlander
    outlander Posts: 218
    edited January 2006
    Thanks Scotty, I'll check into these.

    Has anyone heard of a Golden Tube SEP-1? They have one at a local shop for $350.
    O
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  • scottyf
    scottyf Posts: 129
    edited January 2006
    A friend of mine had it and really liked it. I never got a chance to hear it though. He is one of those types who is always turning over his stereo every 6 months.

    See if you can audition it. It might be just the ticket!

    HOME: VPI Classic/Grado Reference Master, EVS-modified Oppo BP83, Bryston DAC, Counterpoint 3000/SA-100 modified by Alta Vista, Polk LSi15

    TRUCK: Pioneer 8600MP, Soundstream 300SX, pr of Xtant 1001i, Autotek SS490.2, Polk SR6500, Polk MMC6500, pr of Polk MM2084DVC
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  • scottyf
    scottyf Posts: 129
    edited January 2006
    Skynut, tubes sound great in HT applications.....if you can afford it. More tube amps means more tubes to replace, and that get's expensive!

    If you want to do it from the HT tube preamp side, there are fewer products available and no vintage, mass produced classics out there to get at a reasonable price. I don't follow it carefully, but the only one I know of is the Fosgate HT tube preamp and it costs thousands. It's just a matter of when each product peaked.

    I personally use my tube-base two channel stereo for my movie watching. I am very pleased with it. The only thing I feel I give up is a large sweet spot to watch in (no center channel to anchor dialogue). If you are in the sweet spot, you give up nothing and gain a lot, especially when a musical score comes on. My current setup is so good that I've quit going to the movies as much so that I can rent DVD's I haven't seen and watch them at home.

    I've yet to have a person over to watch movies who hasn't commented on how enjoyable my stereo made the experience.

    HOME: VPI Classic/Grado Reference Master, EVS-modified Oppo BP83, Bryston DAC, Counterpoint 3000/SA-100 modified by Alta Vista, Polk LSi15

    TRUCK: Pioneer 8600MP, Soundstream 300SX, pr of Xtant 1001i, Autotek SS490.2, Polk SR6500, Polk MMC6500, pr of Polk MM2084DVC
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  • Skynut
    Skynut Posts: 2,967
    edited January 2006
    Maybe someday I will have the money to do a hardcore tube HT. Il plan on getting into a tube 2 channel rig much sooner.
    Skynut
    SOPA® Founder
    The system Almost there
    DVD Onkyo DV-SP802
    Sunfire Theater Grand II
    Sherbourn 7/2100
    Panamax 5510 power conditioner (for electronics)
    2 PSAudio UPC-200 power conditioners (for amps)
    Front L/R RT3000p (Bi-Wired)
    Center CS1000p (Bi-Wired) (under the television)
    Center RT2000p's (Bi-Wired) (on each side of the television)
    Sur FX1000
    SVS ultra plus 2

    www.ShadetreesMachineShop.com
    Thanks for looking
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