Remodeling the basement

kmartin971

In the process of remodeling the basement. I have setup a dedicated media room that is prewired for 4 ceiling and 7 in walls (2 front, 2 side, 2 rear and a center channel). Any suggestions on what sepackers to use. I was considering Bose 191 in ceiling and TC265is in the wall. Also considering using LSI25s for tower speackers and a LSIC for the center channel. I will be using the enclosures for the 265is.

Room sixe is 15x22! Pooltable is going to be moved into the other room next to the bar!

In the first pic where the speaker wire is hanging I am going to add an closet for the components.

Any comments would be helpful!!!!

Thanks,

Kyle

Larry Chanin

Hi Kyle,

Perhaps I don't understand what you are planning, but if you are prewired for 7 channel for In-Walls or a combination of In-Walls and floor standing and On-Walls, then what is the purpose of prewiring the In-Ceiling speakers?

For a dedicated room, usually installing In-Ceiling speakers is an act of last resort when you have exhausted all other feasible alternatives. That's obviously not your situation. The In-Ceiling speakers will interfer with your surround system.

Larry

kmartin971

I pre-wired the ceiling because I had extra speaker wire to pull it off. I talked with people at tweeter they were ok with it.

In fact, tehy said i would be able to run all 11 speakers off my existing receiver/amp. Of course they offer to wire it for me for a fee.

I do not expect the in ceiling speakers to be used heavily if at all.

I installed because I figured I could not do it later !

I am new to deciated movie room but I have a system in my family room that has worked well for a couple years now. I am new the a media room but not new to surround sound systems.

Larry:

Thanks for the amazing feedback! I do not want to screw this project up!!!!

Planned speakers and locations will be as follows:

LF/RF = LSi25s
Center= LSiC
Side L/R = LsiFX
Rear L/R = Lsi265i
Ceiling = Bose 191

cheddar

Kyle,

The currently available surround sound formats are at most 6.1 (the surround back gets split in two for seven speaker systems; the .1 is the subwoofer channel). So a receiver or pre-amp doesn't even know what to do with the extra speakers unless you're planning to wire the speakers off one of the other channels which you shouldn't be doing trying to drive LSI series speakers.

I would definitely ditch the bose and put the extra money into:
1. seperate power amps for at least the tower speakers if not the whole system.
2. a good quality subwoofer that can rattle the dishes upstairs.

I realize that the 25s have powered subwoofers, but they still can't beat a big boy from a good company (people here seem to like SVS). And a 7.3 system, with separate amplification and proper speaker placement will beat anything you're trying to do with the in ceiling bose. If you're worried about cost, you can save even more money by going with lsi15 towers and the killer sub.

You seem to want the best. Why ruin the recorded dolby or DTS track by adding speakers that weren't there when it was mixed in the studio?

Alan

Larry Chanin

Hi Kyle,

Alan has provided you with good advice. It would be a waste of money investing in any In-Ceiling speakers.

However, I'd like to slightly clarify one point Alan made.

The currently available surround sound formats are at most 6.1 (the surround back gets split in two for seven speaker systems; the .1 is the subwoofer channel).

It's true that the most amount of discrete channels available in today's source material is 6.1. However, not all receivers or preamps simply split a surround back channel to create two mono channels. Most of the new receivers and preamps with Dolby Digital ProLogic II process the surround information to create stereo surround back channels for 7.1.

Nevertheless, this clarification doesn't alter the fact that no matter where you connect the In-Ceiing speakers it will screw up the multi-channel sound.

Larry

kmartin971

The Bose 191s have already been purchased. I do not believe they will get much if any use in the ceiling. I may move them out and put them around the bar outside the media room. I may put LC80s in the ceiling.

Skynut

I would route the speaker wires where you want speakers to stand or sit.
I would not recomend in-wall or in-ceiling speakers because they will be harder to switch out when you want to play with something different.
Then put the speakers where they go and you will have much more control over where you point the speakers and which speakers you want to use.

cheddar

Larry,

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I oversimplified what a good receiver would do. My main point though was that even with the best processing, 11 speakers is still 4 more speakers than the receiver was designed to decode output for. (although some like the denon 5805 will drive more channels, it's more for bi-amping or multi-room applications, i think).

Kyle,

Sounds like you're set on putting 4 speakers up in the ceiling anyways. I hope you can see the downside we've been trying to point out if you use the existing surround channels to feed them a signal. The last thing you want is to hear a sound effect like a person walking pass from right to left and as they're supposed to fade out to the surround speakers the footsteps suddenly come from multiple directions. Since you don't anticipate them getting much use, why not hook them up to a cheap receiver to play "mood music" until everybody's ready to watch the movie. Maybe you can even automate it so that the "mood music" and lights fade as the main attraction comes on just like in the theaters!

Alan

kmartin971

Thats a good idea!!!! I already have fading dimmers setup on the lighting

Any comments on the room size and setup? i can't wait to fire up the first movie!

Larry Chanin

kmartin971 wrote:

Any comments on the room size and setup? i can't wait to fire up the first movie!

Hi Kyle,

You haven't provided any details on what you intend to do for us to intelligently comment on. What do you intend to use for a display, what size? How are you going to approach seating? What distance from screen? One row, two rows, what type of seating, etc.?

Larry

kmartin971

- 65 inch HDTV (rear project); will upgrade/add HR projector later (ceiling is already wired for a projector)
- 2 rows of seating (3 each)
- bar/cabinets on back wall
- sconces (3) and recessed (12) lighting are equiped around the room
- room size is 15x22
- 8 foot ceiling

Larry Chanin

kmartin971 wrote:

- 65 inch HDTV (rear project); will upgrade/add HR projector later (ceiling is already wired for a projector)
- 2 rows of seating (3 each)
- bar/cabinets on back wall
- sconces (3) and recessed (12) lighting are equiped around the room
- room size is 15x22
- 8 foot ceiling

Hi Kyle,

My room size is similar to what you describe, including the bar and cabinets on the back wall. Take a look at the plan view:



To help with comparisons, my room's width is the same as yours 15 feet wide. The length from the screen to the rear wall is two feet longer at 24 feet and the height is 10 feet.

As you can see it is possible to have four cinema recliners per row, but it requires moving the seating off center from the room centerline. It also requires avoiding those very wide type seats. Going with three seats per row obviously has some advantages in that it's more economical and it gets the seating further away from the walls which usually means better sound.

For a 65" diagonal screen 10 feet is a good viewing distance for the first row.

Viewing Distance Calculator

If you plan on having reclining seating in both rows, you should allow at least 6.5'-7' between rows to allow for both the front seats to recline back and the rear seats footrests to elevate. In my case my rear seating riser is 6.5' deep plus I've allowed another 6" between the riser and the back of the first row of seating. This permits people in the rear row to squeeze by others reclining. It's a tight squeeze, but it doesn't require the people reclining to unrecline to let others by.

So using these dimensions, that leaves roughly 5 to 5.5 feet between the rear seating and the rear wall. My wet bar is very minimal and is only two feet deep, so if we use that minimum dimension you will have about 3 to 3.5 feet between the bar and the rear seating.

Obviously I don't know the exact dimensions of your seating so the above estimates are just that, educated guesses.

Naturally when you upgrade to a projector you are going to want a larger screen. That will make things a little more interesting if you still plan on two rows of seating and a bar in the rear.

I have a 120" diagonal screen and the first row is at 12 feet. This distance is the bare minimum distance required to avoid someone with average visual acuity seeing the pixel structure on a DLP projector with 1280x720 resolution. In my case this arrangement yields three feet between the bar and the rear seating. In your case it would only permit one foor of clearance which would be too close to be useful.

You of course can get a different projector with different technology and/or higher resolution so you can sit closer without seeing line or pixel structure, or you can go with a smaller screen.

The bottom line is that to fit two rows of reclining seating and a bar in the rear will require careful planning and the front row of seating will have to be no more than 10-11 feet from the screen to squeeze everything in. If you are not careful on the projector and screen size selected, it may be possible to see image structure for viewers in the first row at that distance.

Larry

Larry's Home Theater

kmartin971

Larry:

You are the man!!!!!!! Thanks for the advice. Very helpful!

The bar will be on the back wall (24 in cabinets and a refig). More like a wet bar. It will not have seating. I will have another bar outside the media room for that.

dale 442

How about something like this?
It gives you maximum flexability for down the road if you don't like your in ceiling speakers. Also, it gives you upgrade ability down the road if you so choose.
These speaker outlets are pretty trick looking and do tend to impress. Obviously with this setup you bury all the wire in the walls first and terminate them and use short jumpers out of the wall.

kmartin971

Thats what I probably going to do. Put in jacks or a plate a place the bose around the bar outside the media room.

Larry Chanin

kmartin971 wrote:

Larry:

You are the man!!!!!!! Thanks for the advice. Very helpful!

The bar will be on the back wall (24 in cabinets and a refig). More like a wet bar. It will not have seating. I will have another bar outside the media room for that.

Hi Kyle,

You're quite welcome.

Yes, that's what I have a wet bar with 24" base cabinets and an under the counter refrigerator. Even without seating at the bar you still need at least 24" to allow for the swing of the refrigerator door. Three feet of front clearance makes more sense to fit a person in front. You have to be able to bend over to get your beverages out of the frig you know.

By the way, I ended up spending about 10 times the cost of a typical "dorm room" refrigerator inorder to get the quietest one I could find.

Here's a drawing of the elevation view of the rear wall showing the small wet bar.



Larry

SKsolutions

I would like to add:
Whichever way you decide to go with your speaker selection (I would listen to those that have been so helpful), I would install the system -in situ- to make sure you have all the connections and locations correct. Before you close up the and paint/finish the drywall, make sure you have a system that works for you. Remember also, that the accoustic will be markedly different when you have a room full of recliners, painted surface, humans, ect. The sound that you will have at system test, will be adequate for localizing the speakers and making adjustments at relatively low volume only. Good luck.