Worth a Lurk - China Selling Direct

mlhm5

removed

RuSsMaN

There are a TON of audio items selling direct from China, not new news really.

mlhm5

RuSsMaN wrote:

There are a TON of audio items selling direct from China, not new news really.

Did you know Shanling is Vincent in Euorpe and Music Hall here. In fact the $600 Music Hall CD-25 is exactly the same unit as the Shanling CD-S100 and many vendors are selling it here in the US for less than $200.



6 Moons Review

Want a better CDP, how about a Vacuum Tube Style HDCD CD Player for $400?



Here is the review pitting the S100 v. the A10T or Mark II
Review

Was news to me.

RuSsMaN

Yep, buyer beware.

ninerbj

bump

mlhm5

RuSsMaN wrote:

Yep, buyer beware.

Suprise, Suprise! the Onix XCD-99 is made by Shanling and is the exact same player as the Music Hall CD-25.

http://sphl.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/buy_cl.pl?dgtlplay&1140400781

Looks like all the wonderful tube, HDCD players are really Chinese but with different names and faces.

Buyer beware of US companies rebranding Shanling, Sheng Ya, Melody and others.

I give you the Melody Amp rebranded by Onix.

RuSsMaN

You've busted the industry wide open, turned it on its ear, literally! Where is the Chinese Conrad Johnson and Classe gear? Got any eastern Sonic Frontiers, BAT or Bryston? THAT is something I'd be interested in, you know, gear really worth owning, not just because it's a little cheaper than the model on the shelf at the local audio mart?

G'head, load up on it, like a Chinese buffet. Best of luck, really. Hope it all pans out for you.

Cheers,
Russ

Dennis Gardner

I don't know 'bout you Russ, but I'm in shock! I gotta start checkin' all my gear for rice residue..............

mlhm5

RuSsMaN wrote:

You've busted the industry wide open, turned it on its ear, literally! Where is the Chinese Conrad Johnson and Classe gear? Got any eastern Sonic Frontiers, BAT or Bryston? THAT is something I'd be interested in, you know, gear really worth owning, not just because it's a little cheaper than the model on the shelf at the local audio mart?

G'head, load up on it, like a Chinese buffet. Best of luck, really. Hope it all pans out for you.

Cheers,
Russ

Yeah, you're right everyone will be paying $4K for sound they can buy for $1K or less.
http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=processors&product=33.1

Handwriting is on the wall, this is China's century. Get used to it.

Dennis Gardner

You must not undersand that the Chinese connection is Mark Schifter's (AV123) business model that he has chosen to use with great succcess. He oversees the making of his China made stuff since he owns half the factory and actually lives there.

If you can put together cheaper labor and teach them to work with the skills needed here in the US and pass along the tremendous savings that you will have by staying stateside, I'll be the first to buy your gear. If not, let us buy what we want.

mlhm5

Dennis Gardner wrote:

You must not undersand that the Chinese connection is Mark Schifter's (AV123) business model that he has chosen to use with great succcess. He oversees the making of his China made stuff since he owns half the factory and actually lives there.

If you can put together cheaper labor and teach them to work with the skills needed here in the US and pass along the tremendous savings that you will have by staying stateside, I'll be the first to buy your gear. If not, let us buy what we want.

The current Chinese worker is more efficient and far cheaper than American labor. Chinese factories are investing heavily in equipment and R&D facilities. If you do not have a Chinese manufacturing/development plan, your high end electronic business or any business for that matter will be at a competitive disadvantage.

Since intellectual property law is somewhat backward in China, expect to see leakage into the US. AV123 to their credit is lowering prices to meet the leakage of Shanling/Melody products into the US through other channels.

It certainly is good for the consumer. AV123 was selling the Melody Amp for $999 a few months ago and now it is $699.

thehaens@cox.net

Really not surprising at all, this has been going on for many years in almost every industry, especially the car industry.......

Which came first? The Mistubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, or the Plymouth Laser? Weren't they all basically the same car on the same rolling chasis?

This is a good thread, as I was/am looking for the Music Hall Maverick SACD player, perhaps there is a less expensive model?

Scott

Early B.

Be careful.

Just because a product looks exactly the same externally does not mean the guts are the same. Grey market products often use the same chassis and circuit boards but with cheaper parts for the Asian and European markets which translates into lower quality sound. If you buy a Chinese product direct, consider the fact that you may need to perform mods on it.

mlhm5

thehaens@cox.ne wrote:

Really not surprising at all, this has been going on for many years in almost every industry, especially the car industry.......

Which came first? The Mistubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, or the Plymouth Laser? Weren't they all basically the same car on the same rolling chasis?

This is a good thread, as I was/am looking for the Music Hall Maverick SACD player, perhaps there is a less expensive model?

Scott

Here you go
Shanling CD-S100 or Music Hall 25

dragon1952

Early B. wrote:

Be careful.

Just because a product looks exactly the same externally does not mean the guts are the same. Grey market products often use the same chassis and circuit boards but with cheaper parts for the Asian and European markets which translates into lower quality sound. If you buy a Chinese product direct, consider the fact that you may need to perform mods on it.

This is exactly what I was told from Jolida regarding the Chinese-direct version of the Jolida JD-100.
Having said that I do own a Chinese integrated which is quite awesome IMO. It's a Ming Da , made by Meixing who I've heard is pretty big in China.
I already know about the Music Hall, Vincent, Shanling, Onix thing. In fact I think most people here do.

dorokusai

I'd like to make a trip to China just for audio purposes someday.

thehaens@cox.net

mlhm5 wrote:

Here you go
Shanling CD-S100 or Music Hall 25

Nice, I'll have to send em' an email and see if they offer anything besides their "express" shipping service.

The CD-S300 has a shipping cost of 109.73 :eek:

ND13

mlhm5 wrote:

Did you know Shanling is Vincent in Euorpe and Music Hall here. In fact the $600 Music Hall CD-25 is exactly the same unit as the Shanling CD-S100 and many vendors are selling it here in the US for less than $200.



6 Moons Review

Want a better CDP, how about a Vacuum Tube Style HDCD CD Player for $400?



Here is the review pitting the S100 v. the A10T or Mark II
Review

Was news to me.

My Sheng Ya Tube CDP is sold in Europe under the brand name Vincent. It was actually designed in Germany and built in China by Sheng Ya. It uses quality components, is built like a tank(no plastic), weighs close to 20 lbs and sounds wonderful. One of the best purchases I've made, imo.

Sami

thehaens@cox.ne wrote:

Nice, I'll have to send em' an email and see if they offer anything besides their "express" shipping service.

The CD-S300 has a shipping cost of 109.73 :eek:

I believe they don't have them stocked here in US. I'd be interested in one as well but do ask questions before you buy, at least about this: Voltage: 220v-240v

ohskigod

you can probably get some great performing stuff cheap this route, I cant deny that. But, with any purchase, just gotta be careful. If I ever decide to put an all tube rig together for kicks and giggles in the future, this might be the route I go. but for my reference rig, I wouldnt narrow my buying to one brand, or in this case, country.

As Russ put it, there are other brands that arent in China whose sound I might like better. you cant discount the old addage "you get what you pay for"

ohskigod

looked at the NY sound link. with those shipping prices, its being shipped overseas. also, is all of it 220V? I have to think putting a voltage converter might effect the sound (not that I am sure). They might have the labor thing down, but have the Chinese here heard of distribution? maybe use the cheap labor to make a few 110V models? dont want to put to much thought to it, whatever


hey noel? was that Sheng ya sent to you with 220V?

ND13

It was already converted with a removeable cord and one could never tell it was converted. Done very well.

Early B.

As I have mentioned before, I bought a Bada tube CD player and the opamp was different (i.e., much cheaper) than the Burr Brown opamp listed on the circuit board. Otherwise, all the other components were of relatively high quality for the price ($500). Luckily, my intention was to modify it anyway. After sinking another $150 for mods, it sounded identical to a modded Jolida CD player in head-to-head competition, and the Bada still had the Chinese POS factory tube in it. I was surprised and so was the guy who modded it for me as we listened to it. Once I changed out the tube, the CD player sounded phenomenal. It was an excellent purchase and I would do it again, but I'd be prepared to do mods anyway, even if it was made in the good ol' USA.

But I won't buy Chinese direct products unless the price is one-half of a comparable component here in the states. There's a lot to be said for warranties, return policies, and resale values. Resale value is very important if you're the type of person who trades out components every 6 months.

I believe prices for high quality audio gear will continue to decline, then stabilize over the next several years as more Chinese direct products flood the market and quality concerns are minimized. Then prices will slowly start to creep back up when the cost to maintain high quality standards begins to increase. So get 'em cheap while you can, 'cause that window of opportunity won't remain open for long.

Danny Tse

According to this thread (with pics) at head-fi.org, Original will set up offices in both the US and Canada.