surge protectors vs. power conditioners

marcpam

just out of curiousity, how many people have surge protectors vs. power conditioners (example: monster brand). I am trying to justify in buying a power conditioner but I don't know if it will make any diff.

nadams

surge protectors only protect you from serious surges. They can do nothing for an undervoltage condition. Power conditioners are supposed to even the signal out no matter what the power condition.

I, personally, use a surge protector, because I can't justify the price of a power conditioner with my current equipment. Power conditioners are supposed to give you a cleaner sound and picture in your equipment, because all the power cleaning is done before it hits the components, meaning that the power supply section of your equipment doesn't have to work to clean the power. Or something like that...

Skynut

I love my power conditioner but
I didn't notice much of a difference after I hooked it up.
It has only tripped once and I figure it saved me some money that time.

Also they look alot better in the rack than the surge protector behind the rack.

MacLeod

Power conditioners are a rip off. They have kinda the same thing in car audio, capacitors and theyre a rip off as well.

dkg999

I was a non-believer once! If you have dirty power coming into your A/V system, then if you own the place, fix the power problem with dedicated lines to your system using high quality wire, breakers, outlets, etc. You can then install a surge protection unit at the circuit breaker box, and/or a combination surge protection/power conditioner. If like me, you live in an apt. with a not-so-up-to-date AC service, and lots of other things running on the same circuit, then using a power conditioner/surge protector makes a very significant difference. I use a Tripp Lite LCR2400 and a Panamax 5100. Both are good brands, good quality, and fairly reasonably priced.

SONYTHEATER

nadams wrote:

surge protectors only protect you from serious surges. They can do nothing for an undervoltage condition. Power conditioners are supposed to even the signal out no matter what the power condition.

I'm not trying to step on you're toes here, but. A good surge protector will protect you from MOST surges. Everything in you're house just about will cause a surge in the power lines. You're fridge kicking on, you're heat/Air, starting you're washer/dryer. All of these devices cause small surges that can over time damage equempent. As for a serious surge, well if you have a direct lightning hit you can probley forget about that surge protector stoping much, if you are lucky it will. Some power condiitioners will in fact protect you in an over/under voltage condition typically shut off at 90V or so under & 130V or so over. I 'm not sure what you are saying by "evening the signal no matter what the power condition". But they are or most rather are designed to help controll back feeds from digital sources, reduce EMI, & RFI interferance, & give you a referance grounding point for all componets hooked to it. Now if you're getting into something that has balanced power or voltage correcting that is a differnt story.
That said, don't buy into all the fancey bells & hoopla that Monster spewes. Don't get me wrong they make some nice stuff ( if fact I have there HTS5100) but you can get products from lots of other manufactures that do the same things just as good or better for alot less money.
When I got mine I couldent tell a differance at all in sound or picture quality other than it did kill a slight hiss I would get at high volume between quite passages. Other than that I have had it take a couple pretty good hits & still kept my stuff going. It took a 190V jolt one time that spiked twice, & a 160V jolt another time. But it will shut all outlets off at 130V to protect what ever is on the other end.
Another thing to consider is a whole house unit if you own you're home. This is the best line of defence against damage, plus you're protecting everything you own thats pluged in not just a few things. You're power Co normally offers these for about 100 bucks & can usualy pay for it in payments with you're normal monthly bill.

Early B.

Power conditioners. The power goes off all the time in my neighborhood. No need to pay a fortune. On my 2-channel system I paid $200, but it's mainly there for aesthetic purposes.

Joey_V

My parents just bought me the Monster HTS3500 mk2 power conditioner.. I'm hoping it gets here soon!

I need some serious power cleaning at my apartment - so many little surges! My light bulbs blow on a weekly basis!

Ferres

There are some reviews of power conditioners here:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/masterindex_power_conditioners.html

I haven't tried any so I can't really make an objective opinion.

DKG999 made good suggestions about fixing the house wiring first or using dedicated lines for av equipment. It does help to get proper wiring in there.

HBombToo

I'll take a voltage stabilizer and filter anyday.

enough said.

1/4twin

Ferres

Joey_V wrote:

My parents just bought me the Monster HTS3500 mk2 power conditioner.. I'm hoping it gets here soon!

I need some serious power cleaning at my apartment - so many little surges! My light bulbs blow on a weekly basis!

If that is the case, you probaly haven't heard the full potential of your AV system. Amps sound gets really distorted/degraded if the power is unstable. :eek:

I had the sennheiser HD650 too, and used the x-can as headphone amp. The sound had a lot of distortion when it was not plugged into the dedicated AV line.

Joey_V

Ferres wrote:

If that is the case, you probaly haven't heard the full potential of your AV system. Amps sound gets really distorted/degraded if the power is unstable. :eek:

I had the sennheiser HD650 too, and used the x-can as headphone amp. The sound had a lot of distortion when it was not plugged into the dedicated AV line.

COOL!

With the new Monster 3500... and my entirely new speaker setup (Vantage soon), I'm in for a treat for sure!

StopherJJ1980

Several months back I bought an AR product from best buy that looks like a surge protector and allegedly conditions the power as well for better sound. Honestly I cant sya I ever noticed a difference. I cant justify a 200-500 dollar expense for the monster conditioners because I havent heard them make a difference. Seems like that money could be spent better, but if you got the $$$ and you like it, more power to you. I do confess they look badass in your rack though, might get them just for asthetic purposes lol. Anyways seems like a good surge protector should be the minimum to hook up, they dont cost much so why not.

Ferres

If the lines in your house are good and you don't get too much power fluctuations, a power conditioner would be of minimal value. This is really for people who can't get their wiring fixed/updated or have serious external power issues.

If you've got a stable line with good wiring, you may not get as much bang for the buck on power conditioners.

Tour2ma

dkg999 wrote:

...if you own the place, fix the power problem with dedicated lines to your system using high quality wire, breakers, outlets, etc.
If like me, you live in an apt. with a not-so-up-to-date AC service, and lots of other things running on the same circuit...

AC line noise is no more only generated in the home, than it is in your apartment.

SONYTHEATER wrote:

I'm not trying to step on you're toes here, but. A good surge protector will protect you from MOST surges. Everything in you're house just about will cause a surge in the power lines. You're fridge kicking on, you're heat/Air, starting you're washer/dryer.

Me neither, but...

I've yet to see a light bulb get brighter, i.e., from a surge or voltage spike with the A/C kicks on. Motor driven household appliances cause voltage dips.

DAMCB

StopherJJ1980 wrote:

Several months back I bought an AR product from best buy that looks like a surge protector and allegedly conditions the power as well for better sound. Honestly I cant sya I ever noticed a difference. I cant justify a 200-500 dollar expense for the monster conditioners because I havent heard them make a difference. Seems like that money could be spent better, but if you got the $$$ and you like it, more power to you. I do confess they look badass in your rack though, might get them just for asthetic purposes lol. Anyways seems like a good surge protector should be the minimum to hook up, they dont cost much so why not.

After upgrading through Monster's entire line of Reference Power conditioners w/ surge protection, I finally found the only one that made any improvement in audio on my surround system or PQ on my Sony KV-40XBR800 display. This unit is the HTPS-7000 and it is, of course, their most expensive model @ 1.2K list. A "Signature Series" version is also available for even more $$$. I installed the Monster 7000 in August and was amazed at the improvememt in clairity, detail, and picture sharpness of the regular digital cable channels. and more modest improvements with HD and DVD sources. I have 6ea. RTi4 speakers, a CSi3 center and a Velodyne SPL1200R sub. The speakers are powered by a Denon 3805 receiver, with all of the electronics plugged into the Monster 7000. The surround system now runs dead quiet and seems to be a lot more detailed and open. In September we had a weird power spike or line to line short from the incoming power lines that caused 3 of my 20 amp breakers to arc and melt to the bus bars. One of the breakers fed my HT and the M-7000 so I was using a lot of F-words as I replaced the breakers, since I thought I was screwed again. I turned everything back on , the 7000 ran through it's start up, reset - and-- NO DAMAGE!!! Whew! PROS-1)44lbs of electronics in a black rack-mountable chassis,with LED status indicators, programable switched on-always on/delay on-off recepticles, a large digital voltage display, it looks cool and IT WORKS!! CONS- 1) MONSTER=EXPENSIVE!

dorokusai

I just unplug my 2CH rig....best surge arrestor ever.

SONYTHEATER

Tour2ma wrote:

AC line noise is no more only generated in the home, than it is in your apartment.
Me neither, but...

I've yet to see a light bulb get brighter, i.e., from a surge or voltage spike with the A/C kicks on. Motor driven household appliances cause voltage dips.

I think you miss understood what I was saying. You are right that motors starting will cause a sag or dip in the line, so saying it is a surge could be the wrong way to explane it. But you do sometimes get an in rush of more current after theat device levels back off, hence the small surge. Not to menchion that some motors can feed back EMI as they start up or shut down.
I'm not the best at explaining this so my termenolgy may be off somewhat, but my father in law is a retired electrican, & I had a former boss that was a line man for 40 years that have explaned to me how alot of these things work.

Myself like others have said beleve in starting with good wireing first. If there is a problem fix it don't just band-aid it if you can of course.
One of the biggest things I found early on was to make sure if you're running to more than one outlet for you're gear make sure they are all well grounded & share a common leg if on seperate breakers in you're box.

jrlouie

Ferres wrote:

If the lines in your house are good and you don't get too much power fluctuations, a power conditioner would be of minimal value. This is really for people who can't get their wiring fixed/updated or have serious external power issues.

If you've got a stable line with good wiring, you may not get as much bang for the buck on power conditioners.

That's the key.

I lived in a house (a rental ) that required I have a power conditioner. Turn on the garbage disposal and the stereo would go into protect mode. Hook up the line-conditioner in the living room, and all is well. My new apartment's lights fluctuate all the time along with the line-conditioner indicating surges or dips in voltage via its led's. I feel much more comfortable using it.

Those who have power fluctuations benefit. Those who don't, might see less or no benefit.

Skynut

It only takes one surge to pay for itself if the conditions are right.
Mine is here and I would replace it if it broke.
I have never lost anything to a power surge short of an old refridgerator but I do not want to take a chance.

Tour2ma

jrlouie wrote:

Turn on the garbage disposal and the stereo would go into protect mode.

Now that's some bad friggin' wiring...

SONYTHEATER wrote:

I think you miss understood what I was saying. You are right that motors starting will cause a sag or dip in the line, so saying it is a surge could be the wrong way to explane it. But you do sometimes get an in rush of more current after theat device levels back off, hence the small surge. Not to menchion that some motors can feed back EMI as they start up or shut down.

I think I pretty much caught the drift. Voltage dips occur because the initial draw of a motor starting is two or more times it's running current. As for the surges, I've never noted the excess current looking for a place to go when a motor shutsdown.

Side Note: 90+% of any voltage dip issues I have experienced have been due to corrosion in the breakers. Fortunately they are self-cleaning, so if you shut all down and flip your breakers several times dips will go bye-bye.

Joey_V

When I turn on my amp... the lights go dimmer for like a split-second... what does this mean?

Also, I noticed that I replace my light bulbs alot... like about 6 bulbs a month at my apartment (Keep in mind that we have about 10 bulbs total). However, I noticed that I havent had to replace a bulb for the two lamps connected to my cheapo ($20) Belkin surge suppressor... what does this mean?