Hdcp??

peekobi
peekobi Posts: 58
edited December 2005 in Basic Hookup/Wiring Questions
My 2 year old Toshiba Hi-Def TV has a DVI output in the back. My Time Warner Hi-def DVR cable box has a HDMI port in the back. My cable has DVI on boths ends so I purchased a Monster adapter so the HDMI end would fit into the back of the cable box. For some reason, it doesn't work!

My cable provider rattled something off about this HDCP, telling me that mabey Toshiba doesn't support it. I see that Toshiba Corp. is a HDCP licensees so is there anything that would keep this connection from working? When using Component cables it works just fine but I cannot get it to work with my DVI/HDMI connection. Any suggestions? Can anyone explain in layman's terms what exactly this HDCP is?
Thanks in advance
Reciever Onkyo TX-SR708

Center - polkaudio CS245I
Mains -- polkaudio RT600I's
Sides -- polkaudio RT35's
Rears -- polkaudio RT25I's
Sub ---- polkaudio PSW-350

TV: Panasonic TC-P50GT30 HDTV
Blu-Ray Player Panasonic DMP-BDT215

Common sense ain't that common!:loneranger:
Post edited by peekobi on
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited December 2005
    copyright protection
    Never Forget
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  • peekobi
    peekobi Posts: 58
    edited December 2005
    PolkThug, thank you. Why (since I pay monthly for cable) or what would be protected? Mabey they don't want anyone being able to record anything in HiDef??
    Reciever Onkyo TX-SR708

    Center - polkaudio CS245I
    Mains -- polkaudio RT600I's
    Sides -- polkaudio RT35's
    Rears -- polkaudio RT25I's
    Sub ---- polkaudio PSW-350

    TV: Panasonic TC-P50GT30 HDTV
    Blu-Ray Player Panasonic DMP-BDT215

    Common sense ain't that common!:loneranger:
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  • Fallen Kell
    Fallen Kell Posts: 94
    edited December 2005
    Basically PolkThug is correct. The signal is encrypted in the HDCP protection scheme. It requires a proper handshack with other HDCP complient devices to setup the shared decryption key.

    I believe there is a HDMI->Non HDCP DVI output converter, they cost about $300-400 and there is the possibility that it will not work in the future because of how HDCP works (it keeps an updatible "blacklist" of devices/keys that are deamed "un-appropriate use" or "used by pirates". This list is updatible by online connection, actual content like HD/BR-DVDs, software updates to STB's). So basically if the device can be used to copy the data out of the HDCP format into clean digital format, it will most likely be blacklisted soon.

    In other words, you are screwed because the content/movie industry has stated that all of their customers are pirates.

    The only other option you have is to see if there is a HD STB that does not use HDMI or DVI+HDCP, but just has a regular DVI output. I do not know if they exist for your service. You will basically be forced to accept component, which isn't really bad, but certainly not as good as keeping a digital signal if you have a digital output device...
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  • peekobi
    peekobi Posts: 58
    edited December 2005
    Fallen,
    What do you mean HD STB? I'm not exactly sure if you are referring to a Hi-Def cable box? Before I had the Hi-def DVR, my DVI cables worked just fine with their regular box (DVI). After they switched boxes to hi-def (HDMI), is when they became useless. I doubt they will get a DVI port box anytime soon so I guess the componets are my only option at this time.
    Reciever Onkyo TX-SR708

    Center - polkaudio CS245I
    Mains -- polkaudio RT600I's
    Sides -- polkaudio RT35's
    Rears -- polkaudio RT25I's
    Sub ---- polkaudio PSW-350

    TV: Panasonic TC-P50GT30 HDTV
    Blu-Ray Player Panasonic DMP-BDT215

    Common sense ain't that common!:loneranger:
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  • Fallen Kell
    Fallen Kell Posts: 94
    edited December 2005
    peekobi wrote:
    Fallen,
    What do you mean HD STB? I'm not exactly sure if you are referring to a Hi-Def cable box? Before I had the Hi-def DVR, my DVI cables worked just fine with their regular box (DVI). After they switched boxes to hi-def (HDMI), is when they became useless. I doubt they will get a DVI port box anytime soon so I guess the componets are my only option at this time.

    Sorry, yes, I meant the DVR replacement, since that is in your case being used as the HD tuner. I don't think there are any DVR/tuner/combos that the cable/satilite companies use which does not have DVI+HDCP or HDMI as the only digital outputs. Their main problem is the fact that they do not want people to then connect that system to a computer for instance and then offload the saved programs in digital format.

    If you don't have noticible issues with the component output, then that is the best you are going to really be able to do. If however you do see noticible PQ issues, and you simply do not want to lose your DVR capability, look into getting another STB (basically the exact one you had before you had the upgrade to DVR) and connect that to your TV via DVI. Use it for your normal TV viewing and the DVR for when you need to record things. Now grant it, this might be a pain if you like pausing live TV, but since they both use the same "channel up/down/number" sequences, your DVR should in theory change to the same channel as the other STB whenever you change channels... And if you need to pause, just hit the pause button like normal and then flip the TV's input to the DVR...

    Again, this all kind of sucks, but it is all because the content industry has declaired all their users pirates, so the early adaptors of HDTV are all being screwed.
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  • TheReaper
    TheReaper Posts: 636
    edited December 2005
    Fallen Kell wrote:
    Again, this all kind of sucks, but it is all because the content industry has declaired all their users pirates, so the early adaptors of HDTV are all being screwed.
    The joys of early adoption:
    Win7 Media Center -> Onkyo TXSR702 -> Polk Rti70
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  • TheReaper
    TheReaper Posts: 636
    edited December 2005
    I have a Toshiba 42H83 RPHDTV, I believe the 83 series was the first to have DVI-HDCP. I have never tried a DVI connection yet, so I don't know if it works.
    Win7 Media Center -> Onkyo TXSR702 -> Polk Rti70
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  • peekobi
    peekobi Posts: 58
    edited December 2005
    Toshiba just got back to me and said their HDTV is DVI/HDCP complient. This means that the cable co. is blowing smoke. Their HD DVR (Scientific Atlantic Explorer 8300 is not doing the handshake thing with my TV. The DVR is giving me the attached msg. Hopefully Time Warner will get back to me so I can use the digital DVI connection. Just anoither learning experience today.
    Reciever Onkyo TX-SR708

    Center - polkaudio CS245I
    Mains -- polkaudio RT600I's
    Sides -- polkaudio RT35's
    Rears -- polkaudio RT25I's
    Sub ---- polkaudio PSW-350

    TV: Panasonic TC-P50GT30 HDTV
    Blu-Ray Player Panasonic DMP-BDT215

    Common sense ain't that common!:loneranger:
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  • peekobi
    peekobi Posts: 58
    edited December 2005
    oops heres the attached msg.
    Reciever Onkyo TX-SR708

    Center - polkaudio CS245I
    Mains -- polkaudio RT600I's
    Sides -- polkaudio RT35's
    Rears -- polkaudio RT25I's
    Sub ---- polkaudio PSW-350

    TV: Panasonic TC-P50GT30 HDTV
    Blu-Ray Player Panasonic DMP-BDT215

    Common sense ain't that common!:loneranger:
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  • Fallen Kell
    Fallen Kell Posts: 94
    edited December 2005
    hmmm... that is interesting. If you have issues with the cable company/Scientific Atlantic, I would contact Digital Content Protection, LLC., www.digital-cp.com, which license the HDCP technology. There may be a fireware flash that your DVR requires, so ask your cable company about that as well when you are on the phone.
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  • peekobi
    peekobi Posts: 58
    edited December 2005
    they e-mailed me today about possibly upgrading the HDCP compliance firmware in their Scientific Atlanta DVR box from 1.0 to 1.1. Problem is I'm the one that had to contact the box mfg. You would think Time Warner would have done that. I guess that not many digital customers complain like me. I'm still not holding my breath.
    Reciever Onkyo TX-SR708

    Center - polkaudio CS245I
    Mains -- polkaudio RT600I's
    Sides -- polkaudio RT35's
    Rears -- polkaudio RT25I's
    Sub ---- polkaudio PSW-350

    TV: Panasonic TC-P50GT30 HDTV
    Blu-Ray Player Panasonic DMP-BDT215

    Common sense ain't that common!:loneranger:
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  • polksda
    polksda Posts: 716
    edited December 2005
    I've been dealing with this issue as well with my new Pioneer DVD player. The Pioneer uses HDMI, but my TV set only has a DVI input. Occasionally the authentication "handshake" between the two units and my Iscan HD+ goes wonky and I have to restart everything.

    I spent some time on the phone with DVDO, and the gist I got was that the HDMI "specification" (use the term loosely) was poorly thought out and in many cases poorly implemented. It is less of a standard than one would think.

    Thank paranoid Hollywood for this clusterfuck...
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  • okiepolkie
    okiepolkie Posts: 2,258
    edited December 2005
    Several recent articles in Sound and Vision have referenced these same problems. The same box would work on some HDCP tv's and not on others. Even with the same television, if they plugged and unplugged the cable box, sometimes it would work.

    In most instances, the cable companies will not take any responsibility for the problems.

    Hope everything works out for you.

    Zach
    Tschüss
    Zach
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