Polk Speaker Size Configuration for my SS System

BrianV

My LFE Velodyne DPS12 sub is not producing any bass on non Dolby/DTS tracks.

Using MCACC on my new Pioneer VSX-1015TX, it registered all speakers in my configuration as 'Large'. I then read on a site that for music, 2 channel, non-dolby/dts stuff that the LFE will produce NO BASS on any speaker configured as 'Large'. Setting them as 'Small' did get the Velodyne working again.

My music without any BASS sounds ok because the Polks I have do fine without bass, but I think it's missing a little.

Anyways, here's my config, how would you guys configure speaker size:

Center Channel - CS2
L/R Front - Monitor 60s
Rear Channels - Monitor 30s

Remember, the Pioneer MCACC automatically detected them all as 'Large'.

Thanks,
BrianV

schwarcw

Hi Brian and welcome to the Forum. If your Velodyne has an internal crossover, consider connecting the Velodyne to the front preouts on the receiver and on the speaker setup menu, set the subwoofer to "OFF" or "NONE". All the LFE signal will go into the front channel and you can have all your speakers set to "Large" and still get the LFE signal into the sub. I've done this and it works pretty well.

BrianV

schwarcw wrote:

Hi Brian and welcome to the Forum. If your Velodyne has an internal crossover, consider connecting the Velodyne to the front preouts on the receiver and on the speaker setup menu, set the subwoofer to "OFF" or "NONE". All the LFE signal will go into the front channel and you can have all your speakers set to "Large" and still get the LFE signal into the sub. I've done this and it works pretty well.

Carl,
Thanks for the advice, but from what I've read, your better off leaving it in LFE and configuring some speakers to small and letting the 80hz cross-over do its work. I have both the velodyne and pioneers xovers at 80.

LFE works really well in DVD movies so I don't want to compromise that. I don't think configuring small or large does anything to the sound EXCEPT activate the 80hz crossover for BASS.

WilliamM2

I would set all the speakers to small, and set the crossover to 60hz for music, and 80hz for movies.

Don't trust your reciever to identify them correctly. Mine evens detects my R15's as large, and they are only 11 inches tall with a 5.25 woofer.

BrianV

WilliamM2 wrote:

I would set all the speakers to small, and set the crossover to 60hz for music, and 80hz for movies.

Don't trust your reciever to identify them correctly. Mine evens detects my R15's as large, and they are only 11 inches tall with a 5.25 woofer.

Right now I set the CS2 and M30s to small and there's definitely bass coming out of the velodyne now. I'm thinking I'll leave the M60s large so they add some definition. What do you think?

adam2434

Hi Brian,

First, you should try to eliminate the crossover in your sub if you're connected to the "sub out" on the receiver You don't want the bass to see 2 crossovers. The best way to do this is to bypass the sub's crossover completely if your sub allows this. Look for a crossover "in/out" switch and choose "out" or look for an "LFE" input on the sub. If you don't have these options, turn the crossover all the way up on the sub.

As far as speaker size and crossover settings go, experiment and determine what sounds best to you. Some places to start are
1) all speakers small, sub on, crossover at 80 Hz (your current settings)
2) for music you may want to try front large, sub off or
3) all speakers small, sub on, crossover at 50-60 Hz

As long as you set your fronts to small, I believe your receiver will send bass below your chosen crossover frequency to the sub, independent of the source. This is the way my Pioneer works.

I personally don't use my sub for 2-ch music because I like the way my towers sound by themselves, but this is a subjective choice.

Adam

BrianV

adam2434 wrote:

Hi Brian,

First, you should try to eliminate the crossover in your sub if you're connected to the "sub out" on the receiver You don't want the bass to see 2 crossovers. The best way to do this is to bypass the sub's crossover completely if your sub allows this. Look for a crossover "in/out" switch and choose "out" or look for an "LFE" input on the sub. If you don't have these options, turn the crossover all the way up on the sub.

As far as speaker size and crossover settings go, experiment and determine what sounds best to you. Some places to start are
1) all speakers small, sub on, crossover at 80 Hz (your current settings)
2) for music you may want to try front large, sub off or
3) all speakers small, sub on, crossover at 50-60 Hz

As long as you set your fronts to small, I believe your receiver will send bass below your chosen crossover frequency to the sub, independent of the source. This is the way my Pioneer works.

I personally don't use my sub for 2-ch music because I like the way my towers sound by themselves, but this is a subjective choice.

Adam

Adam,
It is plugged into LFE in. The crossover on the sub itself does still work. If I set it at 40 Hz it picks up tons of bass. I can set the crossover to DIRECT which I suppose means just use the Pioneers Xover settings.

I like how the music sounds with just the towers, but I watch a lot of TV and the 2ch TV sounds a lot better with the sub.

adam2434

If "direct" bypasses the sub's crossover, then yes, that is what you should use if you're using the bass management in your receiver. Check your sub's manual to be sure. My old Velo had a "in/out" switch for the crossover. "Out" meant a bypass of the internal.

If you set your sub's crossover to say 40 Hz and it is active, you will actually lose + 40 Hz LFE content from DVDs with a LFE channel. So, you want to bypass the sub's crossover or set it at max when using the bass management in your receiver.

StopherJJ1980

I know what your talking about when you say that when you set all the speakers to large the sub doesnt receive any bass... I dont know why pioneer set it this way and I think it is dumb personally. I have both pionner and yamaha subs and the yamaha gives you the option to send bass thru both the larges and sub, for some reason pioneer thinks it should only come out of either the large speakers or the sub but not both.

So option No. 1 is just get another receiver.

Option two would be to use the speaker level inputs on your sub. It might be a pain in the butt to run all your front wires thru your sub and to spend the money if you like some decent quality speaker wire, but that way you can really set al the speakers to large or small depending on what you like, and the bass signals will be sent to the front large and run thru the sub first.

Also, when will manufacturers of receivers realize that consumers dont need a crossover on both the receiver and the sub. Both should have the option to bypass the crossover. Velodyne is smart to offer this option.

Anyways, my $.02

da5176

Hey Brian, Deja voo... I got the same speaker set-up as you. My Onkyo detected all speakers as large as well. I set mine to all small. My cross-over is at 100Hz. This is the original detected setting and I like a very deep rich sound from all audio sources. I was surprised how much bass my 60s put out by themselves when I got them but a sub is much better. Try your cross-over at different settings, even above 100Hz. Can't hurt, leave it where it sounds best to you.

adam2434

Not sure about your Pioneer, but both of the Pioneer Elites that I have owned have a "Plus" option that sends a full range signal to the fronts and bass to the sub.

However, if you want your sub to play bass, setting the fronts to small and picking a crossover in your receiver to blend with your fronts is a more straightforward approach. Try the 2 lowest crossover settings on your receiver (my 45TX' are 50 and 80 Hz). I'm pretty sure the crossover is a both a high pass and low pass filter: for example +80 Hz to the fronts, -80 Hz to the sub.

BrianV

Thanks for the help guys. I'm working on it right now and tomorrow I will report the findings. I have some concern regarding the 80hz xover in the Pioneer as it seems it's letting A LOT higher frequencies out. Still investigating...