Sovtek / Electro Harmonix in trouble!

organ

Check out this article.

http://www.newsensor.com/releases/MoscowTimes_VacuumTubes_20051208.pdf

F1nut

Let's hope they get things worked out.

BlueMDPicker

Here is the same article from Six Moons if you don't have a PDF reader.

Little mention of the impact on home audio. Of Mike's $14.5 million in tube sales, it appears to be mostly for instrument amplification.

dorokusai

I wouldn't miss those tubes anyhow.

RuSsMaN

You would once your little Amperex horde dries up. That, and what will the general populous buy - once their selection is narrowed? You should be able to see the snowball affect here.

That's messed up, plain and simple.

faster100

dorokusai wrote:

I wouldn't miss those tubes anyhow.

Lets see, in the vintage tube thread you said you didn't care if the supply ran out and now you don't care if the new production tubes (some ) are gone..

So i'm to assume you really don't care about tubes or anything in general? LOL

dorokusai

Of course it's sad but I'm still not worried about it....it's audio man, nothing lasts forever. The biggest reason why I don't care?...is because I can't do anything about it.

Faster100 - You're a genius.

faster100

Mark i take no credit, YOU are the genius!! worldclass wisdom. but you don't care

dragon1952

I originally really liked the EI 12AX7's in my Jolida but after further experimentation the Sovtek LPS's are definitely the best by far. Also bested other 12AX7's such as 1963 GE's, 1961 Sylvania's, 1960's Bugle Boys, current production JJ Teslas, 1950's Raytheon and also the old Raytheon 5751 black plates that are supposed to be so hot. Russ was correct about them I must admit. YMMV

madmax

Musicians are typically not the type to horde tubes. You will notice the loss when those guitars and B-3's are playing through transistors.
madmax

madmax

On the other hand, a person or company could theroetically DIY a tube...
madmax

dkg999

If just one supplier has $14.5 million in tube sales, as referenced above, then it is assured that someone will figure out how to manufacture them! If that number is accurate, I am wondering just what the actual market size in the US is for tubes?

F1nut

I'm thinking there's money to be made here too. Who's got a few million for start up costs?

Dennis Gardner

Two hurdles to deal with.................

First is the old equipment that is left over from 50-60 years ago. Its not the building, its whats in it thats required. It is more a creative art than a robotic task to build a tube with a 80-90% failure rate. We could never take that over here with our labor rates.

Then 2nd is the location which consists of Russian women with the skills that work for next to nothing.

That's why the New York owner still makes them there. Noway to do it here financially.

RuSsMaN

Exactly, the Reflector factory pre-dates WWII - and so does the tooling equipment in it. It's not just get some capital, by a machine or two, and start cranking out tubes.

shack

As other's have mentioned....this venture does not work anywhere besides the former Soviet Uinon or China/far east. First off, only HALF of New Sensor's annual revenues of $17,400,000 comes from the sale of tubes. That's $8,700,000 in gross revenues. It sounds like a lot, but it's not. Intel revenues are $108,000,000 per day. On top of that, the work force is 830 and that IS a lot of people for that level of revenues. Even if you could move the 50-60 year old equipment to a new facility anywhere in the western industrialized nations, the cost of a plant and the cost of skilled labor would send this venture "down the tubes" in a heartbeat. I'm not sure this could even become a cottage industry. Sounds like the price of getting into tubes may be a little pricier if this does not get worked out.

organ

This could have a major impact not just for us audiophiles but also for musicians. New Sensor makes a lot of music equipments too, not just tubes. They seem to cater more to musicians than audiophiles.

I love a lot of the tubes New Sensor is making and IMO, they're the ones really making any effort to improve current production tubes. No other valve company is producing as many varieties of tubes as Sovtek/EH.

If we lose them, we still have Ei, JJ, SED and Shuguang.

Alright, SOPA members. We have a new mission. We must collect enough money to build a tube factory and buy the equipments from the Reflektor plant if they close down. We'll voice our tubes with Polk speakers so people will have to buy Polk to hear their new SOPA tubes at their best;).

Seriously, I hope everything works out between them.

I think SED (flying C) is still alive because of New Sensor. They sold the "Svetlana" name to New Sensor several years back so they could keep the factory going. Not entirely sure about this. I read it somewhere on the net. Or it might have been New Sensor that distributed SED in North America back then and New Sensor wanted the name in return. I need to catch up on my tube history.

Maurice

george daniel

RuSsMaN wrote:

Exactly, the Reflector factory pre-dates WWII - and so does the tooling equipment in it. It's not just get some capital, by a machine or two, and start cranking out tubes.

Correctamundo--these types of "skills",in most cases are passed on from generation to generation, and once these plants/factories are gone, then so will be the skills that have been aquired to make the product. In a nearby town, there is a mill that has been in operation for about 100 years, I recently was invited to take a tour by the Human Resources director, the equipment was 80+ years old, no automation,just learned skills,passed on ,in some cases from one generation of family to the next,they had their own school system, parks,ballfields,housing,etc. I was amazed that there was no automation,except for records,etc,,,now, the plant will be closing because the product/labor/etc. is being outsourced to a plant in Mexico=costs=labor. The product? They made the "cords" that you use in tire manufacturing,and other like products,even the ones that are in your garden hoses. Bottom line, bottom line,,keep it in the black, it's amazing how much we rely on other countries for items for our everyday life, sorry for the long windedness,but the H.R. guy was really concerned about his staff and their future, sooo much history and skills,,what a waste.

madmax

F1nut wrote:

I'm thinking there's money to be made here too. Who's got a few million for start up costs?

I don't have any money but I'm thinking they might hire the two of us in the Golden Ears department. How cool of a job that would be, huh?
madmax

SCompRacer

madmax wrote:

..... they might hire the two of us in the Golden Ears department.

I had to put my glasses on. At first, I thought it read you were signing Jesse up for a Golden Years program.

madmax

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa......
madmax

jcaut

Thought I'd bring this back up and see if there's any new news on this front. I'd hate to see that factory shut down.

Sort of a coincedence I guess, but I had just gotten a set of EH 6922's for my ELP maybe a day or two before this thread got started. I've listened to them for long enough now that I think they're getting pretty well burned-in, and I'm forming some opinions about the way they sound. First, they seem very detailed. Not necessarily bright in a bad way, but there's definitely more up top than the EI's that I had in the pre before these (which are "not bright" to the extent that they give up a little detail). A little tighter in the bass dept., too, but overall- or maybe because of that-- they seem to have a little less bass. In overall sound, I find them to be pretty close to the JAN Phillips 6922's I have, which is good. They seem well-made and don't exhibit any microphonics -- no ringing at all when switching the "operate/mute" toggle, whereas I have noticed that, to varying degrees, with other tubes. They do seem a little noisier when nothing is playing; A little more background hum, perhaps. They don't sound as "tubey" to me as the JJ's, if that makes sense.

Jason

Emlyn

I bought a few sleeves of the EH 6922's for cheap, just in case there's a lapse in production. Found out the Reflektor plant actually stopped making the Sovtek branded 6922's in favor of the EH branded ones earlier this year. They seem very similar though. Very robust and long lasting, and I also agree on the not so "tubey" sound to them. Although I don't use them as the primary signal tubes, I may need a lot of them with the Sonic Frontiers gear in the future.

Haven't heard any updates on the "extortionists" pulling the plug on the plant yet.