polk monitor 30 home stereo speakers...

audiobliss

Actually I thought it was funny. But it's even more funny (down right hilarious) how he becomes the very thing he accuses others of being in alerting them to it. I don't think he got the tone of Sid's post at all!!!!

Jstas

Toxis wrote:

So you're saying my brain is stunted in growth? Interesting concept... but try again. Your sarcasm needs a LOT of work. It's just not funny.

It wasn't sarcasm, it was an insult.

audiobliss wrote:

Actually I thought it was funny. But it's even more funny (down right hilarious) how he becomes the very thing he accuses others of being in alerting them to it. I don't think he got the tone of Sid's post at all!!!!

Are you ever going to wake up and stop stroking everybody else's ego? You're like a yapping dog. You never add any value and just get in the way.

I like this being hated thing!

Your post doesn't make any sense. I've always been a **** when it comes to **** like this. I don't like n00bs coming in here and mouthing off. If you have something to add or help with do so and leave the attitude at the door. I don't like people spouting off and trying to pass off opinion as fact or propagating a myth or other misinformation. I do my best to squash it quickly and dispel the offending information. I really don't like fellow members berating and attacking other members for no reason other than they asked a question about a subject and thier previous knwoledge was either inaccurate or based on misinformation. It's not thier fault if they don't know, the info just hasn't presented yet. If they don't know and are acting like an **** about it then they deserve to get berated. I won't bother anyone looking for info or trying to expand thier knowledge experience. I will even help them out if I can. I don't care for blind brand allegiance nor will I accept silly arguments based on public opinion as gospel.

I lose patience with things sometimes because it is depressing to see so many n00bs falling prey to the same myths and misconceptions over and over again. It upsets me and sometimes I take it out on the wrong people but only because I don't know who the right person is that filled this poor guy/girl with false info. That doesn't make it right and it's my issue to deal with. bottom line, as much of an **** and **** as I can be, I don't dish out the crap first. I don't cause trouble. I will stick my nose in when I think something stinks and I'll be tenacious about righting a wrong but I don't go looking for trouble. I am willing to help out anyone, even those little **** here who have the balls to tell me they hate me and nobody likes me on an internet forum but lacks the stones to say something to my face in public. If I'm such a non-threat to everyone, why doesn't anyone step up?


All this because Vinnie asked a question about a solution he came up with himself and got berated for it because it wasn't the accepted norm. He shouldn't be berated but applauded for his ingenuity in dealing with his problem. If it is an incorrect way or there is a better way, inform him of what he is doing wrong and why. Don't try to discredit all of his experience in car audio and don't tell him he's stupid for using his brain and applying his knowledge to a problem to reach a solution. That's what being a **** is. Little boys sling insults and act with arrogance without ever asking the question "Why?" first. Then everybody says I'm full of **** when I say that there is a seperation and an "us vs them" mentality when it comes to the home audio side and the car audio side.

I guess I'm a **** and an **** then. I'm happy with that though. I don't tolerate disrespect in any form. I don't give respect too often here because I haven't been shown any myself even when I have been respectful. Those that do get my respect don't hang around here anymore and it's not because of me. I know who I am, I know what my ideals, morals and ethics are and I will stand up for what I believe is right. The problem is that very, very few people here understand me and none of those people that don't understand have ever taken a chance to try. The people that do understand, they aren't here anymore. That leaves no one who "gets" me and you'd rather laugh and poke fun at something you don't understand like a bunch of 6th graders than to find out who I am. You can't sit on an Internet forum and tell me that you have made life-long friends of people you have never met in person. You cannot get a complete picture of a person from words on an Internet forum.

hellohello

(sarcasm oozing from the following) poor Jstas, everyone gangs up on him 'cause hes long winded and strong opinioned... maybe not poor Jstas, Maybe poor everyone else.. :P

PoweredByDodge

other than John and Thomas (Trappedunderice - who I spoke to on AIM about these speakers), nobody's really been of any real help other than to state how they feel a set of home speakers should be wired without telling me why, so that I can understand it and apply it to my situation.

Still - no one has said how to properly blend a home sub and speakers - I'm still waiting on that... not so that I can jump down your throat, but so that I can try it...

MacLeod

Vin - I think what Sid is trying to say is that most home speakers, having their own specifically designed and built box, can reach down pretty low without distortion and will likely be able to accurately reproduce frequencies down to the point where the speakers natural roll off becomes inaudible.

So the way youd blend a sub into home speakers is to use the subs crossover. Since virtually all home subs are self powered they also have variable x-overs on them and if they dont youre receiver is likely to as well. Just buy the sub you want and then tune it to the frequency that best blends with your system.

VR3

Here is what I have to say... (TO John, see Pic)

As for Vin,
I will attach a graph of a speakers response graph similar to the Monitor 30...

Here is a bookshelf SVS made... Notice the roll off. Note that there is absolute NO reason for a speaker of any quality to play so much below its response that it will distort unless you have a bass boost of sorts on.



As for the high crossover I mentioned that were used in cars, thats because I have heard from Mac, Exalted, etc were using an xover that high. Thats the only piece yall get from me John.

Vin, I think you will like the Monitors and good luck!

VR3

How to set up a sub in a home enviorment is fairly simple...

Frequencies above 80hz (and around 80hz) is fairly localized - so unless you have satelites or something, there isnt a reason to cross the sub over any higher.

Another thing is the volume of course... set it to where you like it.

Another thing is phase, most just have a switch to flip between 0 and 180... which helps blend your subwoofer best for your room.

As for hooking it up, some people like the LFE cable, I am currently running that - but I honestly prefer the speaker wire method.

The speaker wire method is where you run from the amp/receiver to subwoofer line in, then from the subwoofer line out you go to the speakers. This allows you to cross them over with the subwoofer instead of the receivers so you will have more options. Doing it that way would allow you to cut off the mains and the sub around the same spot but you would still want your receiver set to large with the bass set to mains.

If you do it the LFE way, you run a LFE cable to the subwoofer and preferably would use a Y Splitter (2 M, 1 F) on the end to get a nice bump in output. The rest is fairly simple as the receiver takes care of most of the particulars...

MacLeod

Dude, where you get you put a car sub at 120 Hz??

You dont want a car sub much above 80 Hz if at all and usually they end up in the 60-70 Hz range.

A car is a different environment than a home, most definitely, but you crank your sub up to 120 Hz, especially when its getting 2-3 times the power of your front stage, and all youll be listening to is the sub.

VR3

Thanks for clearing that up!

And to think it didnt even take a paragraph???

MacLeod

Also, I dont like running bass out of phase. Thats ok for higher frequencies but lower stuff, usually below 150-200 can have some severe cancellation issues running out of phase.

VR3

I have never set up a system where 0 phase looked better that 180...on a graph...

MMV

MacLeod

Maybe its just in a car then. You take a sub in a car and flop the polarity and youll have no bass.

VR3

Phase in the home dosnt exactly have that problem I found, phase usually determines the response of the sub (flatness and extention)...

Hmm...

Im learning new things everyday

neomagus00

i think the phase in the car is the same way, it really depends on the vehicle...

PoweredByDodge

phase adjustments in car

---

#1 reason for phase adjustments in a car are that you are using a passive crossover that induces a phase change. due to this phase change, you must adjust the phase of your speakers so that everything comes back to zero across the board (or ar close as possible).

#2 reason... distance of driver A from driver to your ear is vastly different than distance of driver B from driver to your ear.

phase in home

---

same principle as in a car, you want everything at zero... must home speakers have built in crossovers at 12 or 24 db (anything even-order that will give you a 180 or 360 shift) and are then flipped in phase inside the cabinet if necessary (like a 12 db inside the cabinet crossover, so the driver is wired inside out of phase by 180 degrees to compensate). in the end, all your whole finished product cabinets will be "100% in phase" if you wire them straight up to your receiver / amp without using external crossovers.

The sub has a phase adjustment on it of 0 to 180 degrees to accomidate distance from listener to driver being grossly different from distance from listener to speaker drivers.... or to accomidate external crossovers of non-even-orders.

what is phase

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phase does not determine flatness or extention. those are given properties of the driver... just like you posted a graph for me of the monitor 30's, the sub has a similar graph for its response. extention, to my understanding, is how low the sub will play before hitting its -3 db or -6db (depending on how you're judging it) point.

running things out of phase

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the only reason to run anything out of phase is to avoid cancelation and to avoid sound that is 'out of order' (i'm lookin for a word like dis-congruent, but i don't think tha'ts a word... basically, everything is not hitting in unison like it should, **** lags behind other ****). swapping phase as guesswork gets you no where. it's a way of correcting things... used improperly, it'll cause more problems.

car sub at 120 Hz...

---

My tweets go from top limit to 4 k.
Mids from 4k to 500.
midbass from 500 to around 100 (i'm still playing with it - i'm using the amp's high pass 12 db /octave dial to dick around with where it reinforces the subs just enough to blend well, but still doesn't over-do it)

10" subs run from 120-ish (i say that because it's dialed in) down to 60 (opened up the 81000d and rigged subsonic filter).

12" subs run from 20 hz (amps lower limit as well as the fact that the circuitry subsonically filters it at that) up to about 80 hz.

what i get is a peak from 60 to 80, and another small peak from 100 - 120.

where do you normally set your bass up or down on the deck at? ... at 100 Hz or at 60 Hz depending on what you listen to. I have gotten 3 db boosts at both of these points by simply crossing things over and keeping them in phase. My bass control on my deck is set at -1 dB @ 100 Hz. and I find it to be "just peachy". normally when i had two subs and wasn't doing all the funny crossing over, i was using +3 to +5 and had a BBE switched on. Now it's just "straight up" and does what I want it to. I have wildly flat response across the frequency range.

FINALLY - what i was lookin for with the M-30's - Thanks VR!

---

According to the response graph you've posted up there (which is what I was really looking for all along) it looks like the speakers have a -3 dB point of about 70 Hz, and the slope looks to be ROUGHLY 12 dB / octave.

That being said, I can see why the drivers would not need to be high pass crossed-over. The cabinet, design of driver, etc etc etc all lend themselves to a natural 12 db high pass filter @ 70 Hz.

So, logically, I should then set my subwoofer crossover to 70 Hz (its variable from 40 to 200 Hz), and set my subwoofer phase to zero (its variable from 0 to 180). And use that as a starting point for fine tuning my system.

Cool beans. Thank you !!!



FYI --- I'm using a Parts Express 250-ish watt plate amp (subwoofer box amp) with an mtx 6000 12" subwoofer in a 1.0 ft^3 sealed enclosure. sounds plenty damn good, beats the **** out of the Onkyo "300w" home sub I used to have, and stomps a mudhole in the Infinity crap I've heard. Have to get some red carpet to do it up with to match the rest of the living room. I've been waiting on doing it because I didn't know if we are going to change the carpet or not, and I wanna do something other than basic black, so its been "au-natural" since I built it.

MacLeod

I dont know dude. Ive goofed up several times over the last 15 years and accidentally flopped the wires on the sub and it doesnt take more than a couple seconds to realize something is terribly wrong!

PoweredByDodge

oh wait, **** - i read through your post too fast - that's an SVS bookshelf speaker... does polk have a response graph for the Monitor 30, or at least a -3db point? (i'm willing to assume the polk has a similar 12 db/octave falloff - i'd just need to know what the -3db point is).

Thanks again.
-vinnie.

VR3

Polk does not release FR graphs of their home speakers.

The biggest difference between SVS's and Polks will be the flattness of the graph probally...

Polk gives the -3db and -12db response of their speakers.

PoweredByDodge

hmm...

-3 @ 63 Hz... so I guess I'm settin the sub for 65-ish and takin it from there... works for me.

they should be here tomorrow so imma give them a listen and let you guys know what i end up doin at the end of the day.

i may very well end up setting the sub crossover higher or lower, but we shall see. i'll just run test tones through the suckers and see what happens.

VR3

Note that if you set the speakers to small on your receiver (if u have that option) - it will automatically cross over your mains at a higher octave...

So you want to set them to large and bass to both.

(lfe setup)

PoweredByDodge

well i'm running direct power out on the receiver's built in amp for the speakers, and line level out to the sub.

initial listening - i've had them plugged in maybe 10 minutes. before turning them on, i dropped the gain on the sub by about 20%... and X'ed it about 70.

I put in Tesla - Little Suzie, and I just about **** myself.

I can absolutely, honestly, truly, not believe that a 200 dollar pair of bookshelfs could blow away everything I've ever owned like this.

They take a holy **** all over the towers I used to have, and there is no words to describe how much they put the old bookshelfs to shame.

If this is polk's "low line" stuff, I can truly not imagine what in god's name the "good stuff" sounds like.

I am in utter, complete, disbelief. I have not been so impressed with something in my entire life. My little brain figured sound like this took **** like the LSi-7's. I think my cranium would explode if I actually got a chance to hear something like that.

I can probably say this is the best 200 bucks I ever spent.

I unscrewed the bumpers and wall hangers from the backs of the cabinets and put the screws back in so the enclosure isn't "leaky"... they look great on the end tables. Cherry really was the way to go.

I am still in friggin shock.

I can't believe this.

With the equalizer turned off, they sound almost perfect (well perfect to me)... with it on and just tipped a hair up at 60, 160, 10k and 16k it's INSANE. (like plus 1... the thing goes up to + 16... and I always had to have some wicked crazy curve to ge tother speakers to sound even halfway respectable.).

I'm gonna cry - I'm so happy...lol.

This is great stuff! ALmost makes me want to go back to 5 channelwith 4 of these and a C series center channel. But I'm not going to bite off more than I can chew...

Happy me.

audiobliss

Congrats, man! Welcome to the world of home audio!

VR3

You've dove in now...

Yall have LSi's before you know it and a cabinet of amps!

Awesome! Congrats!

MacLeod

Just imagine if youd gotten the RTi4's!

And congrats on having something new to spend your money on!

PoweredByDodge

what money - audio is making me broker than i already am... someday when my proverbial ship comes in, there will be what sounds like an atomic bomb going off in my general part of the country. but it'll be the sound of 20 6x9's in the bed of a pickup and a wall of subs... probably in concert with much other crap... but until then, meager me shall carry on with my happy little small victory.

audiobliss

Jstas wrote:

Are you ever going to wake up and stop stroking everybody else's ego? You're like a yapping dog. You never add any value and just get in the way.

Wow. I could really be offended by that if I thought about it. Though if I did, I might find it's true...so I'm just not gonna think about it...:p

Oh, and if you're wondering why I read this...it's 'cause I saw Cody was reading it...

PBD - Have you made any changes, enhancements, upgrades to your home system? Or have you just been enjoying it here lately?

PoweredByDodge

nah - just my m-30's ... and my 12" mtx sub.

seo

I have been pretty happy with my monitor 30's, but for me it was a downgrade from a pair of SDA-CRS, due to a lifestyle change and lack of room. There a just an interim speaker until I can get a another room added on to the house.

My main complaint is that the bass can be kind of "thumpy", not a nice clean neutral response. I've considered a subwoofer, but wasn't sure if it wouldn't make it even more "thumpy"

Overall, an excellent little speaker for $200

aaharvel

good job with the new 30's PBD. Have fun with them.

Nice to see someone not using the same ol' same ol' 80hz xover. Let 'em breathe a little bit. Mine sound so much better on the 60hz marker too.

happy listening.

MacLeod

Oof. From SDA's to the Monitor 30?!? Thats gotta suck.