Polk Audio SurroundBar (42", 50", 360 DVD Theater, SDA IHT) - Review/ Help Thread

MrBean

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the feedback, this is very helpful.

I will try the changes you have recomended, and let you know the results.
It does seem a shame not to use the sub out and LFE in if you have them, as that would probably get you closer to the 5.1 standard?

Also can someone from Polk confirm what the distances from the side of the speaker should be? Do the surround speakers bounce sound off walls etc to maxamise the surround effect, or do they just project sound forward to the listner?

Thanks,

TECHNOKID

MrBean wrote: »

Hi Jim,

It does seem a shame not to use the sub out and LFE in if you have them, as that would probably get you closer to the 5.1 standard?

Thanks,

Indeed it is a shame as LFE is for the low frequencies special effects during movies 5.1 encoded audio. However, LFE is not used during 2 channels playback (CD or such).

Therefore, there is no one "best" way to connect a subwoofer since all receivers and amplifiers differ. The same applies to subwoofer as they all differ, no rooms are alike and will not support low frequency information and the quantity of bass desired will differ for each listener. Additionally, the same hookups to the same amps/receivers and the same subwoofers can produce different results if "bass management" settings (speaker size selectors, etc.) or subwoofer settings are different.

The best thing I would suggest is to experiment. Hooking the "LFE" jacks up usually only sends bass special effects of a 5.1 encoded movie to the subwoofer. In this case, if you also want to listen to music on a two-channel source (CD or such) for example, the subwoofer would not receive any signal at all. Therefore, in this kind of situation you could hookup both the "LFE" jacks and the speaker terminal jacks to a subwoofer in order for the subwoofer to produce bass with all sources. The best way to hook up a subwoofer is what sounds best to you, with your equipment and your individual tastes! It does take time/fidleling/experimentation, but when you have listened to all your options, you know which one is best for you.

Right now, both subwoofers are night and days (look at the specs for his/yours):

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/psw/specs.php

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/recent/psw303/

I gather your receiver, rooms and listening habits/preferences are also very different so again, I would invite you to explore all the possible settings.

Cheers

jimbo1421

I don't think that I am losing any LFE effects with the set up I described above. They are routed to the L & R front, and thus to the subwoofer.

Correction: On my Yamaha RX-V496 Set Menu, Bass Out is set to MAIN, not OFF. Your Yamaha may be similar.

The SurroundBar does not require bouncing sound off of walls, unlike the Yamaha Sound Bar. Close obstructions like walls may even interfere with the SDA technology as I mentioned about my left hand wall.

There is quite a bit of information about SDA technology here:
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/surroundbar/features.php?s=overview

Regards,
Jim

TECHNOKID

I don't think that I am losing any LFE effects with the set up I described above. They are routed to the L & R front, and thus to the subwoofer.

Correction: On my Yamaha RX-V496 Set Menu, Bass Out is set to MAIN, not OFF. Your Yamaha may be similar.

Jim, you have to realize that LFE and the standard bass connections are 2 different technologies. The standard connection will provide you with the typical analogue bass only while the LFE will provide for the encoded special effects over the typical analogue bass. Unless I get it all wrong, this is the way it works.

MrBean

Hi All,

Well thanks for all the input.

As i only use this system for movies and TV, and most of th HD content on my TV is in 5.1, I will probably leave it setup with the Sub out and LFE in.

Thanks,

jimbo1421

TECHNOKID wrote: »

Jim, you have to realize that LFE and the standard bass connections are 2 different technologies. The standard connection will provide you with the typical analogue bass only while the LFE will provide for the encoded special effects over the typical analogue bass. Unless I get it all wrong, this is the way it works.

Hi TK,

I attached a screen capture from my RX-V496 manual. (The PDF version was encrypted; no copy/paste allowed.) I could have chosen either MAIN or BOTH to get LFE to the subwoofer. MAIN seemed to most closely match the instructions with my SB 42, but I have not tried BOTH, using the Sub output. Do you still think I am missing something with LFE?

Regards,
Jim

MrBean

Hi All,

I spoke to Polk today about this, and they recommended that I go with the option of connecting the L & R main to the Sub, rather than use the Sub out to LFE in. The reasoning behind that is that my receiver does not have a settable crossover frequency for the sub out. On my amp it is set at 90Hz, and the recommended crossover for the Surroundbar is 120 Hz. So it would be best if i link the Sub to the main left and right audio channels, set the crossover on the Sub to 120Hz, and adjust the volume level on the sub by listening to a CD that I am familiar with to set the balance.

So Back to option 1 for me.

jimbo1421

Did you ask them about placement in your cabinet?

MrBean

No I forgot to ask.

Man this is confusing!! The manual I have states that with the option for the sub connected to the Left and Right speaker outs on the receiver, to set the centre and surround speakers to small, and the left and right to large. It also states no delay settings.

The quick start guide on the web site, and the addendum that you posted states to set the surround and centre to large, and a 15ms delay on the rear!!

Confused!!

Can someone from Polk jump in and tell us which is the most recent recommendation?

jimbo1421

The Quick Start Guide (file created in 2005) I linked to above says:
6a. 'Using receiver set-up menu, set all channels to
“Large.” A filter in your SurroundBar™ removes the
right amount of bass. Any setting other than “Large”
will double-filter the bass content, resulting in
poorer performance.'
This is also what my guide from 2007 says. Use this as a benchmark and experiment from there. Trust your ears.

Jim

svtjoe

I have found that the delay setting helped my effects. Boost the rears to 6db+, set the correct delay for the rears...dont get the bar too close to anything (sides)...

You should be golden.

I sometimes get so obsessed with tweaking stuff on the bar and the AVR, that I forget to watch the movie. The girlfriend gets so mad when I pause it every 5 seconds to change something!


I added two speakers in the back and I am impressed with how wide the soundfield is. My room is terrible acoustically, but it really jams with my setup.

Thanks,

Joe

motohead1

Well I've had my sb50 for a week now and after switching out a bad driver I can say that this thing does indeed rock! My brother-in-law came over and was skeptical. I plopped in Pearl Harbor and went to Dec 7 bombing and he was amazed that he could hear bullets and planes coming from his sides. It's obviously not as good as my Rti8's for music, but considering I have a baby and a toddler, I won't be listening to Rush at eardrum busting levels anytime soon anyways.

vidoprof

So I originally bought the Sony HT-CT100 and it was REALLY lacking big time. I returned it.

I am now testing out the Soundbar 360 and well I have to put it up to MAX volume for me to even try to enjoy movies. I mean I can DEAL with it, but I want it LOUDER.

I already have a nice sub (Martin and Logan Abyss 12") that rocks. What i want to know is will the Soundbar 50 be worth getting? Is it THAT much louder (with the right receiver) than the 360? How much power SHOULD I put to it to make it LOUD??

I don't mind spending the money (and I don't have a receiver yet at all) on a receiver to power it the right way, I just have to have have a soundbar or 2.1 sound. I can't have any rear speakers and I really don't want bookshelf ones either. I just prefer a soundbar for whatever reason.

Any thoughts guys?

Thanks for any and all input. Any recommendations on a receiver that would go real well with the 50? Try and keep it under $1500 if you can. I don't need XM, or all the optical outputs or even HDMI outputs. I have a bluray player, a Wii, and a Panasonic 50" plasma. That's it.

Thanks again
Ryan

svtjoe

Hey Ryan,

The SB50 looks perfect under the Panny 50".

I would go with a Mid Range Denon ( AVR 789, AVR 2808CI) , or even a Pioneer elite. They will be loaded with stuff and you should be able to find them for $500ish online. They will offer plenty of power for the SB50.

One thing about the SB50 is...IT GETS LOUD! My 100wpc Denon takes it up loud and clear, so loud that it was over powering my 10" Velodyne (I then tried the Klipsch SUB10 and it was better, but I now have a Klipsch SUB 12 and the whole system fills my 25x25 room with big sound.


THE SB360 has some nice mid bass, but yes, in the store I was suprised it didnt go louder...it could be better in the home enviroment though.


Good luck.

vidoprof

Joe,

I actually took home the 360 and well it is still not powerful enough for me. It's teetering on the borderline though, so I was hoping that the Soundbar 50 would be MUCH louder. Would you think it is?

I know it says that it can handle 150W per channel but is that actually correct. If I get a 140W x7 Denon or something similar will it really crank? Would I have to worry about the receiver overpowering and killing the SB50?

Thanks for the reply. Anyone else have any comments?

Ryan

p.s. Joe I don't mind spending $1100 - $1500 on a NICE reciever if it will power the SB50 better.

svtjoe

The more power the better.

The SB50 is very very loud with my Denon. It stays clear as well.

I would think that a reciever with 140 watts per channel could be overkill as the SB50 is easy to drive from a speaker standpoint. (140 watts wont hurt the SB)


Also, you will notice better surround effects with the SB50 (Wider)

I can't wait to hear your thoughts with the SB50 and the Martin Logan Sub. It should be a very musical setup.

TECHNOKID

vidoprof wrote: »

Joe,

I actually took home the 360 and well it is still not powerful enough for me. It's teetering on the borderline though, so I was hoping that the Soundbar 50 would be MUCH louder. Would you think it is?

I know it says that it can handle 150W per channel but is that actually correct. If I get a 140W x7 Denon or something similar will it really crank? Would I have to worry about the receiver overpowering and killing the SB50?

Thanks for the reply. Anyone else have any comments?

Ryan

p.s. Joe I don't mind spending $1100 - $1500 on a NICE reciever if it will power the SB50 better.

I power my SB42" with a yamaha HTR-6080 and this great, lots of power and the SB50 would even be better as it provides you with 2 extra drivers and bass port. You want to have enough power to keep the AVR volume at max 50% which will not over drive the AVR and also provide you with cleaner/better quality power. If I am correct the drivers are rated 125w therefore a receiver in the area of 140w should be great. Also, you have to make sure you pick an AVR with today's technology which will allow you to use proper digital audio out of your BluRay player. You don't have to pay top dollar, IE: in the yamaha receivers, the HTR-61XX series (6160 and above) should be at a good price since the newer models have taken over. You could consider do the same scheme with your favorite brands.

Cheers

vidoprof

THanks for the replies guys I really appreciate them.

I don't need 7.1 channel surround and XM, and Ipod and all the bells and whistles I just need power. I just want to power this thing as well as I can and as LOUD as I can. I also don't want to feel like I am wanting more power.

Right now I have the 360 at MAX volume when I watch a movie and feel like I am still not satisfied. Will the SB50 be THAT much better / louder for me with the right receiver? Should I go the amplifier route? I think that might be overkill but I figured I would ask.

I have the M&L set to 4 out of 10 on the gain and it sounds GREAT. LOUD, tight bass and I am NOT wanting louder on the sub, although if I go up to 5 out of 10 the gf says it's way too loud and we can't hear each while we are watching a movie (the whole point IMO )

THanks again
Ryan

svtjoe

Most recievers that are pushing 140watts per channel will have 7.1 and Xm, USB, Ipod ect.

I would look into a year or two old model that has HDMI pass through, putting out 110-140watts per channel and is from a good company like Pioneer, Yamaha, Denon...ect.

You will be one happy camper.

vidoprof

Joe,

Any that you can recommend?

I am imagining that THAT too might be the way to go for now. I just don't want all the speakers and wires cluttering my space (not even MY space it's rental space).

Once I get the house I want I will set it up the way I want and move the soundbar into the bedroom.

Ryan

svtjoe

Well,

I have been trying all different settings on my SB50.

I bought two RM101's and had them about 20 feet away with a Remote Wireless unit (cant run wires).

I then found a way to mount the small RM101's under my bar right behind me (4 feet away).

I orginally had a Velodyne CHT-10. I now have a Klipsch SUB-12. It sounded good but it didnt blend perfectly with my SB. I played around with some things and here is what I did. (Denon AVR985S)

-I set the Crossover at 100hz.
-I set the FR,FL,C,SR,SL to Large (SB has its own filter to keep it safe)
-Instead of running Dolby Digital EX for the mixing of the 6th and 7th channel, I now run Dolby Digital + PL II Cinema.
-LFE+MAIN = This was on by accident, but after watching "Taken" last night, I was so impressed.. Gun shots, explosions..my sub sounded "quicker" and it blended with the bar very nicely.(Tough to do sometimes with a Large HT Sub and small 3.5' drivers)

I am super happy with what I have. The SB looks nice and modern in my room and the whole system came together great. Music is also fantastic.

Joe

TECHNOKID

-LFE+MAIN = This was on by accident, but after watching "Taken" last night, I was so impressed.. Gun shots, explosions..my sub sounded "quicker" and it blended with the bar very nicely.(Tough to do sometimes with a Large HT Sub and small 3.5' drivers)

Polk recommended different set-up but as I pointed out, HT is made to run subs on LFE otherwise, you are missing a huge portion of the effect. This accident just happened to be your lucky day

Cheers

svtjoe

TECHNOKID wrote: »

Polk recommended different set-up but as I pointed out, HT is made to run subs on LFE otherwise, you are missing a huge portion of the effect. This accident just happened to be your lucky day

Cheers

So I am good with leaving it as is? :cool:

Thanks!

Joe

TECHNOKID

svtjoe wrote: »

So I am good with leaving it as is? :cool:

Thanks!

Joe

"If it works don't touch it!" That is the old saying for a technician, if you are happy that is the main thing. As pointed out, LFE is there of a good reason and that reason is MOVIE SUBSONIC EFFECTS! Now, you have mentioned your RM101 rears under your bar, are the tweeters are hear level? This would provide you best results. If not, try tilting them up (I guess/presume?) to aim toward your hear level position and see if any improvements.

Cheers

svtjoe

Well I always had the LFE coming out to the sub. What am I gaining by putting LFE + Main? I know the bar will limit the low hz.

Also the Rear RM101 behind me are right at ear level. I will get some new pictures.


Thanks,

Joe

svtjoe

Look Mom! No Wires!

That component closet can't be cleaned up..I tried .

Also, instead of selling the R15's for nothing, I moved them outside! The R series lives on! 8 years and still loud and clear!

TECHNOKID

svtjoe wrote: »

Look Mom! No Wires!

That component closet can't be cleaned up..I tried .

Also, instead of selling the R15's for nothing, I moved them outside! The R series lives on! 8 years and still loud and clear!

Nice set-up, looks good! Does your gear have enough breathing space in that closet? I would keep the rest of the family away from the gear, just need someone to drop a jacket of some other piece of clothing over the gear (receiver) and that's it, it can't breathe anymore. Any young kids at home?

svtjoe

No kids at all. The girlfriend knows not to touch it. I made a small shelf to keep the DVD player off. It does get a tad warm in that closet. I live in Florida, those jackets wont be moving anytime soon... :cool:


I do need to get something to clean up those wires and make that room look slick. Mabey I will work on it this weekend.

Thanks,

Joe

shawn474

I just got the surround bar (42") for my parents. They have a really hard room to work with and I recommended the suroundbar. The room opens up to a large living room and open kitchen / dining area, so noise is an issue. With the dimensions and layout of the room, it seems impossible to have a 5.1 set-up due to where the TV has to be placed. Also, to make matters worse, the room is wood panelling on 3 sides and a brick wall with a 24" ledge on the outside wall. We haven't added a sub yet and I still have to tweak the settings on the AVR. I am assuming that the sub will make a huge difference as right now my father doesn't trust me that it will make much of a difference. I have included a crude drawing of their room. Any suggestions on optimizing the performance is much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[IMG][/img]

TECHNOKID

Your surroundbar must be centered with your couch in order to work properly. Looking at the placement of your couch, you would need to place the TV and surroundbar on that brick wall centered facing the couch near the fire place.

As far as the sub, you best bet would be to set the subwoofer on the centered couch and crawl on the floor paying attention where the sound from the sub is optimal. You then set the sub at that location if feasable.

If you want the TV to be viewed in other areas of the room, you would simply need to set it on on a swivel bracket so it can be angled for best viewing for all users sitting at different locations. However, you must realise the other seating such as love seat and chair will never get optimal audio from the surroundbar.

Cheers