Any mechanics around?

MacLeod

My beloved Dodge just shot its first "check engine" light. I have the manual that shows you how to retrieve the codes and it came back as 0442 (its an OBD II system) which according to the manual is:

Evaporative emission control system, small leak detected

When it first went off I took it to Autozone and they read it with their code reader and told me my gas cap was leaking and probable needed to be tightened. This made sense as I had just got gas the day before. He said if it went off again Id need a new gas cap.

He cleared the code and all was well til today (3 days later) and its on again.

Does a leaking gas cap sound right to anybody that knows. Seems to easy to me.

Crappy part is my county just enacted some STUPID **** emissions testing crap that you have to do before you can renew your tags and if your "check engine" light is on you automatically fail. Well guess when my tag is up for renewal? December '05. :mad:

Frank Z

Disconnect your battery for a couple of minutes, that will clear the code. If it comes back on (same code) then you've got a different problem. Most Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep vehicles will continue to light up the Check Engine Light on for 50 key cycles.

MacLeod

But I should buy a new gas cap first just in case Im really lucky and thats all it is right?

I dunno cause I wouldnt think the OBD could detect vapor leaking out of the gas cap could it?

exalted512

buy a GM, problem fixed:D
-Cody

SCompRacer

It could be a bad fuel cap or a leak somewhere in the evap system.

BIZILL

i agree with scomp. could even be a leak in the gasoline RETURN side of the fuel system. i know there is supposed to be an evaporative canister involved.

MacLeod

Ugh, that sounds expensive to repair.

Is that something an average guy could fix or would I have to take it to a shop?

Frank Z

Evap can is an easy swap.

The OBDII system monitors quite a few systems, one of them is fuel pressure and pressure in the tank itself.

My Durango would puke an error code if the cap wasn't on tight. Happened a few times and all I had to do was turn the cap till it clicked a few times.

scubamike

It doesnt take much of an evap leak to set the light. The gas cap is the easiest place to start. I have been a tech for dodge for ten years now and have seen many. If the cap doesnt fix it, trace all lines going from the canister to the tank and up to the purge solenoid. If you dont find anything loose then the dealer has a smoke machine that they hook up to the system and look for the smoke to leak out someplace. Good luck

cam5860

Well first off to clear the codes out of the computer you have to erase all data from the moniter on OBD 2 systems. You cannot clear the codes by taking the battery cable lose that was on the OBD 1 systems that you could do that. Mac those dodges do have bad gas caps on them so it would not hurt to replace it since it is a cheap item. But i would not count on that fixing it you need to check vacuum lines going to the engine. They get old and dry rot very easy. Another thing you might want to check is the purge valve they give trouble sometimes also. But if i was you the first thing i would do is put a new gas cap on and clear the codes out if the check engine light comes back on you can start looking else where.

MacLeod

Cool, thats what I needed to know.

Thanks for the help fellas.

Frank Z

cam5860 wrote:

You cannot clear the codes by taking the battery cable lose that was on the OBD 1 systems that you could do that.

Gotta disagree, I've did it on my '01 Durango (OBDII), watched the tech at the dealer do it on the same vehicle and have done it on my XJ as well.

MacLeod

Yeah, my Haynes manual states that is the proper way to clear the codes as well.

Now for another ****, those Haynes manuals are WORTH THEIR WEIGHT IN GOLD and Ive had one for every car Ive owned for the last 15 years. Problem is they STILL dont make one for the 02 Ram. WHY?!?!? All I have is the univeral code manual from Haynes. Id give anything for a manual for my truck!

BIZILL

i've used my haynes (manual, not hanes undergarments) many a time for my camaro. hate when you come up against an obstacle that is not listed though.

cam5860

I guess it's hard to cover every vehicle on the market by there being so many these days. But hey mac don't forget about chilton repairs manuels. I like them much better than haynes also.

BIZILL

probably best to own both haynes and chilton's.

Frank Z

Factory Service Manuals are really the best option if your gonna turn a wrench on your own car/truck. Spend a little time with Google and you just might find one that you can download for free. I got one for my Cherokee and it has made service and repairs a lot easier.

ND13

Just go get the new cap. Also remember to always turn off the truck whenever fueling, NO MATTER HOW COLD IT IS. The OBD IIs are very sensitive. My wife's brand new van did this 2 weeks ago. I went out to the garage after she told me the light was on and I went straight to the gas cap and yep, it was loose. A couple of days later the light shut itself off.

ledhed

Man, Chattanooga went to Emission Testing? I hope that doesn't happen up here

deceiver

exalted512 wrote:

buy a GM, problem fixed:D
-Cody

I've always owned GM vehicles. I've got a 2000 tahoe. The check engine light comes on all the time... check 4WD, check trans, check this, check that. My mechanic (not mr. Goodwrench) says that there's nothing wrong. Mr. Goodwrench says that I need tons of work done. the vehicle has 60,000+ on it , I maintain it by book standards, and runs like a charm.

So, I drive around with this big yellow square lcd light on all the time.

BTW, my 2003 chevy pickup does the same thing but it's not a deluxe model. It says "check engine" all the time. Still nothing wrong. I think it's a way for Mr. Goodwrench to get his hands on your vehicle.

Jstas

Go to the dealer, find the parts department and ask the guy/girl behind the counter to get you the part number and a price quote for the service manual pack for your truck.

Take those numbers and start searching online. The service manuals for my dad's truck were about $600 for all of them together. I found them online (actually, at eBay) for about $250. Yeah, it's expensive but they are disgustingly accurate and detailed. They are the reference materials the dealer service shops use to get the manufacturer's approved way of servicing the vehicles. If you plan on keeping the vehicle for a long time, they are worth every penny. The first time you have to handle a job like tracing a vaccum leak and repairing an evaporator system, they money you will save in labor will pay for the manuals alone. I'd have the set for my truck but Ford doesn't release service manuals for SVT products. At least not as far as I know. I was told they are treated as internal publications and proprietary information and not available for public consumption. To get a set, you need an authorized SVT dealer ID number. It sucks. I could really use it some times.

MacLeod

ND13 wrote:

Just go get the new cap. Also remember to always turn off the truck whenever fueling, NO MATTER HOW COLD IT IS.

Oh. You may have nailed it. I got gas last Friday and since I was coming from the gym I was in a wife beater and shorts and it was 40 degrees out so I left the engine running. I know thats a no-no but I always thought it was for reasons of fire hazard. Apparantly OBD's dont like it either.

I got the new cap today at Autozone ($9) and pulled the negative cable for 30 seconds and the light is now off. Hopefully it will stay off. Last time it stayed off for 2 days so we'll see.

I was looking for service manuals last night too and they can be had for about $130 which aint bad. Still the Haynes is better for me cause usually anything they wont cover Im not skilled enough to do anyway! Dont know whats taking them so long to come out with one. Its not like Im driving a 1972 Yugo, its a freaking Dodge Ram. One of the best selling vehicles in the world!

Thanks everybody for the help.

bobman1235

Just remember when you shut that gas cap - three clicks!!

warren

Disconect the light, you should pass!

PoweredByDodge

1 - my chart agrees "evap blah blah leak".

2- i had that happen to me after i bought a locking gas cap - the locking gas cap was not as "good" as far as sealing as the stock cap - kept light on. returned cap for a new one - no problems.

3- to clear the computer, the proper procedure is as follows.
.... a - turn car off.
.... b - disconnect positive battery cable.
.... c - go back into the truck (leaving cable still off) and turn the key forward as if you were trying to start the truck - hold it for about 5 seconds.
.... d - release the key, pull it out, and let the **** sit for a minute. then hook the positive terminal back up.
.... e - now that your compy 386 (that's a joke) has been reset, it's going to re-learn some of the finer points of managing your engine, so don't be surprised if for the first 10 - 15 miles it's not as responsive or shifts a little different (for an automatic). it'll go back to "normal".

---

Evaporative purge systems in general.
.................................................................

The gas tank is supposed to be a sealed system. So the cap has to be 100% "on there" and in good shape. Any vapors from the gasoline in the tank are shunted through an outlet hose to a charcoal canister either under the hood or under the body (looks like a folgers coffee can, but plastic). since you don't have a carburetor, there should not be a true bowl purge solenoid. --- there's no carb bowl to purge. multiport fuel injection does not get purged. only TPI (toilet bowl CFI's were purged becuase they basically were carburetors on steroids and had bowls). anyway - so basically your charcoal can (aka vapor canister) should have a INPUT HOSE from the gas tank (there may be a purge solenoid in the gas tank... but most that i have seen are actually only "anti rollover valves"... so that if the truck rolls over, the gas wont go spilling out of the hose and go all over... its not electrical, just a funny lookin valve that sits on the tank). Then the vapor can will have an output that goes to the throttle body (it carries vapor filled air up to your throttle body to then be burned along with the gas - hence, emissions **** - its good though, in some small way it helps fuel economy - in some MINISCULE MINUTE UNFATHOMABLE way). there should also be manifold vacuum applied to the canister - which may be in the form of a solenoid.

it's a friggin nightmare to track down a leak on one of these sytems.

it's not a truly sealed system, even though it claims to be.

there is a small vacuum leak within the canister by design... it's small enough (regulated i guess you could say) that it does not effect the motor's overall vacuum reading, but if you disconnected everything and used a vac gauge with a pump on it to try to track down a leak in the line you'd never find it.

i am almost certain it's your gas cap. Or it may be the surface to which the gas cap mates (i mean think about it the gas cap seals what does it seal to? if that surface is jacked up then it can't seal right).

if the purge system went funny - it would be a warranty issue under not only your 7/70 but your 8/80 (the little known warraanty). by federal law, chrysler warrants emissions components for 8 years or 80 thousand miles. the purge can, the mini cats, the big cat, and any sensors co-inciding with them are all covered -- you will have to fight like a son of a **** to enforce it - but they will in the end have to cave.

you're still "new" though - hell you got 3/36 left don't you? so they souldn't give you **** if it turns out you can't figure it out yourself.

check it out - tighten the cap - and then clear the computer. drive it for like 5 miles... shut it down, turn it back on... drive another 5 miles... and then let is know what happens. if it doesn't come back - cool... if it does... then you can either trust it to a dealer or we can try to walk you through some diagnostic (but its cold, and i hope you have some ramps to roll it up on and a garage to work in).

PoweredByDodge

oh and as far as FSM's -- dude... FSM's are a life saver for the NON-skilled... they're SPECIFIC.

Haynes said the oil pressure for a 318 / 360 should be about 30 pounds on the low end... sure - if it's a magnum 318. what about the piece of **** LA 318's ? ohthey're all the same though right? no.

the LA 318/360 has a minimum oil pressure rating of 6 psi at idle, jumping about 10 every 1k rpm until you get up to 35 psi where it just holds solid. just an exaple -- i live and die by the FSM's for the caddy and the 88.. and the one for the 99 is "very very useful" although i haven't gutted the truck so i wouldn't need all of it. FSM still rocks.

i been lookin for one for the '03 but i couldn't find it - where did u say you can get one for 130? i'd be interested in pickin it up.

CODES

---

80's/90's how to and what they are...
http://www.allpar.com/fix/80s-codes.html

90's and 00's ...
http://www.ptcruizer.com/computer-codes.html

00's and up (p codes for trucks)... (turn key "on-off" 3 times fast - it'll pop up on odometer)
http://www.allpar.com/fix/computer-codes.html


ah - and here's a diagram of a purge system... the one from the 88. basic but descriptive of function...

MacLeod

Cool, thanks Vinny. That explains a lot.

Like I said, put the gas cap on and cleared the code and it appeared to work so hopefully thats fixed it.

My Ram is an 02 and it has 68,000 miles on it so Im out of 3/36. But the cool thing is I bought mine when Daimler/Chrysler was issuing the 7/100,000 warrantys so Ive got a little longer.

I thought the emissions were only mandated by law to be covered for 5/60. Glad to hear Ive got a couple years left.

Here is where I found the service manual for $130. The one for 2003 is $150 tho.

PoweredByDodge

<-- busting out the visa.

....

and no matter what any **** dealer tells you - simply show them this... its right from www.epa.GOV --- i wish i could make big G O V letters there.


GOV

hrm... http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/warr95fs.txt

for 1995 and newer vehicles, that's the required warranty -- 2/24 bumper to bumper... 8/80 emissions.

they give u **** still - call the attorney general and be a dick about it - if all else fails - drive your truck through the service bay and into the showroom, then do a burnout on the floor.

TheReaper

A little tip, when disconnecting a car battery. Disconnect the ground (negative) terminal first.

Why: If you are doing it the other way, hot (positive) terminal first. If the metal wrench you are using touches a metal body or engine part, you can create a dead short.

ohskigod

TheReaper wrote:

A little tip, when disconnecting a car battery. Disconnect the ground (negative) terminal first.

Why: If you are doing it the other way, hot (positive) terminal first. If the metal wrench you are using touches a metal body or engine part, you can create a dead short.

yeah, I've done that :rolleyes:

petrym

TheReaper wrote:

dead short

And that came from TheReaper! :eek: