What is wrong with FORD???

Ron-P

ALL manufacturers have lemons, it's just a fact. Afterall, they are man-made.

Nail on the head there Noel.

Skynut

This debate allways floors me, When I tell someone I only buy American cars I allways get people who try to talk me out of my way of thinking.
I know parts come from all over, I know that some cars are built elsewhere and I know that our car companies own other car companies.
Still after all this I chose American cars and trucks.
You do not have to if you do not want to.
I just feel a sense of pride when I drive my vehicle.

Sorry for the hijack..

TroyD

and that's fine, if it makes you feel better, good on ya.

However, it's not as simple as it used to be......buying 'American' ain't always buying American if you catch my drift.

BDT

ND13

Skynut wrote:

I just feel a sense of pride when I drive my vehicle.

And you should :cool:

Willow

ND13 wrote:

And you should :cool:

No matter who and where it's made

ND13

There aren't any "American" manufacturers anymore. They are Global Corporations now, just as the "Japanese" are global, just as VW is global, just as BMW is global, etc, etc....

And whether you want to believe it or not, that is a good thing for the consumer. It means better products, plain and simple. Even though GM is having issues, they still make a better vehicle than they did 10 years ago.

Ron-P

This debate allways floors me, When I tell someone I only buy American cars I allways get people who try to talk me out of my way of thinking.
I know parts come from all over, I know that some cars are built elsewhere and I know that our car companies own other car companies.
Still after all this I chose American cars and trucks.
You do not have to if you do not want to.
I just feel a sense of pride when I drive my vehicle.

Sorry for the hijack..

I'm not trying to change anyones way of thinking. It just goes back to those (not you Sky) that believe their American car is 100% American. I have a few oldtimer neighbors that believe this and will not listen to reason.

Skynut

I am well aware that parts are made wherever they are cheapest. (within reason)
My Harley has showa forks on it from the factory. This used to irk me real bad but now I just go with the flow.
I have worked on so many "American" cars that were mostly foriegn under the hood that I understand what I am hearing from the masses. (not just here)
There is no pure American vehicle anymore just like (if I understand correctly) there are no American built televisions anymore.
Our manufacturing is all going overseas and our unemployment problems continue.
This is all good for the consumer who is only interested in getting the best product for the money (nothing wrong with that) however, history being what it is, this is not good in the long run for Americans.
What happens if/when WWIII comes and we need to ramp up production to once again save the world?
In the past we had many factories that quickly changed their production to war related items so we could go kick **** and win.
If we have no factories here then we will need allies that can not only make products for us but get them to us so we can save the day.

Perhaps we will not be the victors when/if WWIII happens and we can become a second or third world country.

I know... alot of useless rambling and paranoia on my part but this is what I think.

Willow

Skynut wrote:

I am well aware that parts are made wherever they are cheapest. (within reason)
My Harley has showa forks on it from the factory. This used to irk me real bad but now I just go with the flow.
I have worked on so many "American" cars that were mostly foriegn under the hood that I understand what I am hearing from the masses. (not just here)
There is no pure American vehicle anymore just like (if I understand correctly) there are no American built televisions anymore.
Our manufacturing is all going overseas and our unemployment problems continue.
This is all good for the consumer who is only interested in getting the best product for the money (nothing wrong with that) however, history being what it is, this is not good in the long run for Americans.
What happens if/when WWIII comes and we need to ramp up production to once again save the world?
In the past we had many factories that quickly changed their production to war related items so we could go kick **** and win.
If we have no factories here then we will need allies that can not only make products for us but get them to us so we can save the day.

Perhaps we will not be the victors when/if WWIII happens and we can become a second or third world country.

I know... alot of useless rambling and paranoia on my part but this is what I think.

We have factories !!
I highly doubt the production of TVs will help Kick butt !! There are enough factories around in North America to supply goods. But as we put on our combat gear, we read the labels ...designed in the USA but made in China.

ohskigod

lets not forget that global economies help to prevent war. big reason that, despite posturing, China and US would never go to war (within reason) is that our economies depend too much on eachother. If China, as a country, got pummelled, we'd be pretty screwed. The Vice Versa is also true (probably even more true)

PolkThug

Skynut wrote:

our unemployment problems continue.

The jobs are there for those who want to work.

cmy330go

I remember a test done years ago to find the most "American" car. They based it on percentage of parts and labor. The results pointed to either the Honda Civic or Accord. (can't remember exactly which one)

On a different note....Growing up I owned a bunch of cars. 4 Pontiac Grand AMs ('91,'94,'95,'98), 2 Pontiac Grand Prix GTPs ('97,'99), '89 Lincoln Town Car, '95 Camaro Z28, '99 Silverado LT Z71, '91 Mazda 626. I was the original owner of a number of these cars, and I enjoyed them very much for various reasons. However the Mazda probably had the biggest effect on my car buying future. It was a bare bones DX model. 5spd cassette and power NOTHING, not even locks, and had 115k miles. I bought this car just to be a cheap economical comuter. At the time I drove 120 miles total each day for work. That car ran like a top! At an idle it sounded like a well oiled sewing machine. But what really caught my attention was there was not a single rattle or squeek in the car. At the time I owned it I also had the '99 GP GTP, and the '99 Silverado. The GP only had 15k and the Truck 40k. Both those vehicle when driving over rough roads would have rattles and squeeks coming from the dash. This had always bugged me, but I just assumed it was impossible to avoid. After getting the Mazda It just plain pissed me off. The 626 was by FAR the cheapest of the bunch. Yet was put together much tighter.

I finally sold the car with 160k on it to a neighbor who had just gone through a divorce. He continued to put about 70 miles a day on it for the next 2.5 years. When he sold it there was well over 200k on it, and it still ran like the day I bought it. Since then I have not owned another american car. I have had a Toyota, a BMW, and currently 2 Lexus, and have loved every one of them. I don't think I will ever own an American nameplate again.

Ron-P

What happens if/when WWIII comes and we need to ramp up production to once again save the world?

If there is a WWIII, there most likely won't be much left to try and save. A few minutes lobbing nukes at one another and it's over. WWIII will not be like the WW's of the past.

ND13

PolkThug wrote:

The jobs are there for those who want to work.

I really think he means, the GOOD paying jobs are gone. When Chrysler sold the parts plant in New Castle, In., where I live, to Metaldyne, the workers that chose to stay on took a huge paycut. We're talking going from $26/hr to $14/hr. The good thing, though, is that they hired another 1500 people, which in turn stimulated the local economy. It gave more people jobs, but because the average income level for the city dropped, the housing market has suffered and houses in some neighborhoods have depreciated.

Skynut

ohskigod wrote:

lets not forget that global economies help to prevent war. big reason that, despite posturing, China and US would never go to war (within reason) is that our economies depend too much on eachother. If China, as a country, got pummelled, we'd be pretty screwed. The Vice Versa is also true (probably even more true)

This is true.
Todays economy does not lend itself to war as easily as years gone by and hopefully none of us or our children ever have to see WWIII.

Willow
We have factories !!
I highly doubt the production of TVs will help Kick butt !! There are enough factories around in North America to supply goods. But as we put on our combat gear, we read the labels ...designed in the USA but made in China.

I agree we do have some factories and probably enough to pull it off right now but in 20-30 years we will be outsourcing our military and all our weapons production. (ok maybe not all)

ND13

cmy330go wrote:

On a different note....Growing up I owned a bunch of cars. 4 Pontiac Grand AMs ('91,'94,'95,'98), 2 Pontiac Grand Prix GTPs ('97,'99), '89 Lincoln Town Car, '95 Camaro Z28, '99 Silverado LT Z71, '91 Mazda 626. I was the original owner of a number of these cars, and I enjoyed them very much for various reasons. However the Mazda probably had the biggest effect on my car buying future. It was a bare bones DX model. 5spd cassette and power NOTHING, not even locks, and had 115k miles. I bought this car just to be a cheap economical comuter. At the time I drove 120 miles total each day for work. That car ran like a top! At an idle it sounded like a well oiled sewing machine. But what really caught my attention was there was not a single rattle or squeek in the car. At the time I owned it I also had the '99 GP GTP, and the '99 Silverado. The GP only had 15k and the Truck 40k. Both those vehicle when driving over rough roads would have rattles and squeeks coming from the dash. This had always bugged me, but I just assumed it was impossible to avoid. After getting the Mazda It just plain pissed me off. The 626 was by FAR the cheapest of the bunch. Yet was put together much tighter.

See, there in lies your problem......they were all GMs :eek: except for the Lincoln, and I didn't see you say anything bad about it........YET..

audiobliss

Man, but aren't those Grand Prix GTP's fun? And by far the prettiest car you listed! *drool*

ND13

Come on over to Indy and I'll sell you a very clean 2002 GTP coupe with everything, including HUD.

audiobliss

Oooh, that'd be nice. What color is it? And just out of curiousity, how much are they selling for?

The Grand Prix's of that body style era are my dad's second favorite car, if not first. The other is the Acura TL. He'd love it if I had a Grand Prix.

ND13

White with charcoal heated leather and limo tint. It has the polished wheels and moonroof. It should bring between $15-16k. It only has 38k miles.

audiobliss

Wow, nice mileage. But I couldn't stand a white car. Black or red would be right up my alley, though.

Well, you almost sold a car!

steveinaz

I'm a Dodge/Jeep fan myself, though I admit my last Neon (1997) was a major POS. I'm driving a Suzuki Forenza now---so far, very good w/11,500 miles.

aaharvel

In the past decade, the only thing "American" auto companies have made ANY serious profit on are the full-sized SUV's. Now there's a backlash b/c of high gas prices, and the sales of the bigger SUV's (and to a lesser extent full-sized trucks) are bottoming out. All this leaves is the traditional car. The only way "American" auto companies can sell a car is to discount it to death on the lot, therefore no profit is made. When the "American" auto companies aren't making profits, infact losing billions of dollars every fiscal year, they have no money left to support their R&D depts, and that's where the stockholders, subsequent job losses, and total corporate restructuring (every 4years minimum) begins.

The "American" auto companies are in this crisis because of two interchangeable facts: they don't listen to their customers and they cannot make a high quality, mass-produced car. Sure, they may get a first or second time inexperienced younger buyer to purchase with the lure of deep discounts & rebates, but then when it's time to trade up where do they go with their newfound knowledge? Unless they're 65 and up with HUGE brand loyalty or simply blindly patriotic and ignorant of today's global economy, they go to the Honda/Toyota dealerships; and who can blame them? Millions of consumers don't buy the Accord and Camry because they've been brainwashed by the all-powerful, un-patriotic Satan, but because they're well-informed consumers.

All FORD, GM, and Chrysler have to do is what they should have done since day one. LISTEN to the consumer. The ones with common sense, not the ones who scream 'Hemi!' all day long for no apparent reason.

cmy330go

ND13 wrote:

See, there in lies your problem......they were all GMs :eek: except for the Lincoln, and I didn't see you say anything bad about it........YET..

The lincoln was a pretty good car. We used to call it the Silver Tuna, 'cause it was about the size of a tuna boat. Handled like one too. But after a bad hail storm the name got changed to Dimples. One friend wanted me to lightly roll the whole car in white paint to make it look like a golf ball. But the car was still in perfect shape other than the dings so I could never bring myself to do it. I will say however that the sucker was a pain to start on really cold days. Fuel would freeze in the injectors. Plus it did have the classic 5.0 valve tap.

Audiobliss wrote:

Man, but aren't those Grand Prix GTP's fun? And by far the prettiest car you listed! *drool*

They were fun.... They were the first really powerful car I owned. The '99 was the bigger head turner of the two. It was Medium Gulf Blue Metallic, Graphite Leather, with every single option. I always thought they handled great too. That was until I got my BMW. That car was just sick in the turns!!! With the Michelin Pilot Spot PS2's that little sucker would pull .99g on the skidpad, and give you complete confidence doing it. Of all the cars I have owned the Bimmer was my favorite.

Skynut

aaharvel wrote:

All FORD, GM, and Chrysler have to do is actually LISTEN to their consumers, properly use the funds they have (left) for better R&D methods, and then maybe things will change. Until then, they won't. It's just going to get worse.

I agree with most of what you said but this really sticks out.
We (the American public) have been telling them what we want for years by going out and buying it. If it is not what they are making then they need to figure out why.

They are not willing to change their status quo so they suffer.

It is probably the fault of people like me who will only buy American even if it is the worst vehicle available.

BobMcG

Lets see, my last daily user vehicle was a 1994 Toyota SR5 V6, 4wd p/u. Drove it for nine years and 214,000 miles. Other than the usual maintenance like filters, brakes (1x@ 106,000), exhaust, battery, tires etc, all it ever required was a clutch at 160,000 and a water pump at somewhere over 100,000 miles.

The now everyday runner is a 2003 Toyota SR5 V6, 4wd p/u. (Imagine that!) Now after 68,000 miles it's still running fine and has required nothing to be repaired/replaced.

My current work truck is a 2000, E350 ,V8, Ford Power Stroke Diesel. Now at 87,000 miles in addition to the batteries and tires it has already had the brakes, alternator, water pump and vacum pump replaced. Hummmmmmmmmm.......

PolkThug

cmy330go wrote:

'91 Mazda 626. I was the original owner of a number of these cars, and I enjoyed them very much for various reasons. However the Mazda probably had the biggest effect on my car buying future. It was a bare bones DX model. 5spd cassette and power NOTHING, not even locks, and had 115k miles..

My 89 Mazda MX-6 has 274k miles on it and climbing! The tranny has been replaced, but the engine is all original. The gaskets do need to be replaced, but I've been too lazy. Those little engines are great and fairly powerful.

audiobliss

cmy330go - Very nice looking Bimmer!

BobMcG - Isn't the E350 the van?

VR3

I like Nissan. Nissan owns.

BobMcG

audiobliss wrote:

cmy330go - Very nice looking Bimmer!

BobMcG - Isn't the E350 the van?

Correct, but this is a custom 16' box utility truck with duals on the rear.