Dodd ELP -vs- Dared SL2000

ND13

I'm posting this, because I promised a few that I would tell them what I thought of the two pres.


Ricardo(HTRookie) dropped off his Dared SL2000, on Friday 18th while on his way back home from picking up his SRSs, for me to compare it to my ELP. He picked it back up on Friday 25th, so I had a week to play with it.

The gear used:
Monitor 7As
ASL Wave 20s
Modded AMC CD8b(upgraded Burr DACS and Opamps, Vampire RCAs)
Outlaw ICs between the pre and amps and Signal Analog 1s from source to pre

I'm not an expert by any means and can only state what I heard. I don't use all the fancy terms, so here it goes.

My first impressions of the Dared weren't very positive, but I have to attribute it to the Mullards that were in it. I was quite disappointed with them to be quite honest. He also had a pair of nib Siemens. After letting them burn in for about 35-40 hours, they blossomed quite nicely.

Well back to the "iron". I was very surprised by the weight of the little pre, heavier than the ELP, but mainly due to the chassis and wood trim. The Dared didn't have the soundstage depth and width that the Dodd has, but it's not too far off, especially after the Siemens burned in, but still the Dodd won that battle, imo. SQ was almost a toss up, but I would attribute that to the tubes being used more than anything. I say that because the Mullards were just a bucket of mud to my ears. I was using my faves in the Dodd, an early 60s pair of Amperex 6DJ8 Bugle Boys. That tube hasn't been topped by any of the 9 different pairs I've rolled into the ELP in the last 5 months or so since I got it, but the A-frame, dimpled getter, orange label Amperex that RuSs brought to me at PFest are burning in quite nicely and are as close as I've heard to the SQ of the BBs. The Dared began to grow on me as the days went by and the Siemens burned in, but it never could match the Dodd in the soundstage width and depth and was not quite as precise in centering the vocals as the Dodd was, but not far off.

Overall the Dared is still a great value and it's main advantage, imo, over the Dodd would have to be that it's remote controlled (volume only). The only other advantage would be that it's readily available, with no waiting for it to be built. So that might also be a vote swinger for the unpatient. I will not trash the little Dared, though, because it still beats just about every SS pre I've ever heard, especially those that are affordable. I think you'd have to spend a bundle for a SS pre to sound better than the Dared.

So if you're in the market for an entry level tubed pre, you can't go wrong with either the Dodd ELP or the Dared SL2000. The Dodd edges the Dared out, imo, in it's musical ability and the Dared edges out the Dodd in convenience. One thing to remember about the Dared though, is you will have an extra tube to reckon with, the rectifier.

If you want the best sound for the $$$, be patient and get the Dodd. If you MUST have a remote or can't wait the month or so to get the Dodd, then opt for the Dared, it will not disappoint, with the right tubes, but I'm sure that can be said about the Dodd also.

On a side note, I really enjoyed having Ricardo over for a few hours Friday evening. He's a class act and even brought my wife an apple pie. We got to spend some time comparing the two pres and I don't think that he could hear the differences that I could detect, but that's probably due to my intimacy with the gear. It was the first time that he'd ever heard the 7As and he was very impressed with them as far as I could tell. He couldn't believe the full range sound that they can produce. He actually had to look over at my sub on occassion to make sure that I hadn't hooked it up.;) I believe that the next pair of 7As, with Peerless tweeters, that show up will be nabbed by HTR.
Then we warmed up the Dodd MLP and turned on the Parasound and got our SDA on. He wasn't expecting the sound he heard from the SRS 2s, either. He has the big boys, but doesn't have them properly placed as of yet, so the bass response from them took him by the nads. I'm going to try and make it over to his house soon, so I can help him get his situated right, because his should sound better than mine, I'd have to think. It was nice to finally have someone over to hear my rigs and get some validation. It was also nice to just have someone over that can appreciate the effort.

Thanks Ricardo for dropping by and for leaving the Dared with me to compare. You are welcome back over anytime and hope that you'll take me up on the invitation. Next time, though, plan on spending more time so we can really spend some quality time trying out different types of music. Please post your take on what you thought of the two pres, even though you only got to hear the Dodd for a few songs.

reeltrouble1

Thanks for the review Noel. A nice read. Sounds like HT is on his way.

Dont be so sure about him grabbing the next pair of 7a's though.

Take care.

RT1

Ricardo

I guess I'll have to second Noel's thoughts on Dodd vs. Dared..... as he mentions I only listened to the Dodd for a few songs, and honestly I did not hear any difference, but then I don't have a trained ear and was too busy trying to keep my jaw from dropping while listening to the amazing sound of the 7A's....

I trust Noel's ear and the fact that he had them both for a week...so if we need to pick a winner, hats off to Dodd.

On a side note, I want to say that what I heard in both systems on Friday I think it's gonna be very difficult to top..the 7A's sound is completely unbelievable; probably helped by the source and tubed pre and amps, but I had never heard music like that before. The SDA's also sounded wonderful, and as I told Noel, after hearing them I think mine sound like crap....but I do need to place them correctly though...

Thanks to Noel and his family for having me over; I really enjoyed it.

faster100

Gotta remember, Noel has srs's.. and some top notch gear to boot.. makes a big difference.. Not defending my old speakers as i know they sounded good on my gear.. Just saying apples to apples

The pre's mentioned are real basic with not much in the signal path. I would think they would be real close in sound, the better caps in the Dodd (i assume the dared has generic caps) and the tube difference would make a small difference for the better, I'll assume..
both look like qaulity entry level pre's... Good write up..

Ricardo

faster100 wrote:

....Not defending my old speakers as i know they sounded good on my gear..

If you are talking about your old 1B's:

1.-Right now my comparison is Noel's SRS 2 with my SRS (have them for one week....)
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34463&highlight=SRS+house

2.- Your 1B's sound absolutely great; to be very honest now that I unhooked them and got the big ones there I sometimes think that the 1B's sounded better....though to be fair the SRS don't have the new tweeters... but I might try to do a comparison between both....

ND13

Cliff,

Ricardo has the Big Boys now

Sorry HTR, didn't know you were posting at the same time

faster100

AH cool... didn't know that.. well you still have some steller gear to compare to.. not sure what he has,

malikarshad

Thanks for the great review Noel. It really helps me reassure my purchase of Dared
You are right the remote comes very handy sometimes though i still miss the HTBy pass switch as I have to swap the cables everytime.

Did you use the stock rectifier tube in the dared?

Looks like it times to give a try to some Siemens tubes. Are these the ones you used
http://www.thetubestore.com/siemensecc81.html

ND13

malikarshad wrote:

Thanks for the great review Noel. It really helps me reassure my purchase of Dared
You are right the remote comes very handy sometimes though i still miss the HTBy pass switch as I have to swap the cables everytime.

Did you use the stock rectifier tube in the dared?

Looks like it times to give a try to some Siemens tubes. Are these the ones you used
http://www.thetubestore.com/siemensecc81.html

Don't worry, the Dared is a nice pre and deserves consideration.

You'll need to ask HTRookie about the tubes, but I'm pretty sure the stock rectifier was being used. I thought his Siemens were some new production, but I'm not too sure. The boxes looked like new, not NOS and so did the print.

Ricardo

malikarshad wrote:

Thanks for the great review Noel. It really helps me reassure my purchase of Dared
You are right the remote comes very handy sometimes though i still miss the HTBy pass switch as I have to swap the cables everytime.

Did you use the stock rectifier tube in the dared?

Looks like it times to give a try to some Siemens tubes. Are these the ones you used
http://www.thetubestore.com/siemensecc81.html

Those are exactly the ones used... and yes, the stock rectifier.

Ricardo

faster100 wrote:

AH cool... didn't know that.. well you still have some steller gear to compare to.. not sure what he has,

Yeah...he is using the Dodd MLP and a moded source....so comparison is not really fair

I-SIG

ND13 wrote:

. I will not trash the little Dared, though, because it still beats just about every SS pre I've ever heard, especially those that are affordable. I think you'd have to spend a bundle for a SS pre to sound better than the Dared.

I can certainly recommend one SS pre that should be very affordable and should have no trouble bettering the Dared and possibly the Dodd as well.

The Audio Alchemy DLC (Digital Line Controller)

They can usually be had for less than $300 used. I suspect that probably around $150 is a more realistic price. It has a remote control, 4 inputs & 2 outputs. Each input is controlled independently, i.e. changing the volume on input 1 will not change the volume for other 3 inputs, etc. There are no tone controls, just inputs, mute, volume, and balance.

The sound was very similar between the Dared and AA-DLC. The main difference was the bass. There was much more contol and less muddle with the DLC than the Dared. Admittedly, there was an occasional CD that sounded a little more airy with the Dared, but those were certainly few and far between and not enough to make up for the mediocre bass.

Wes

malikarshad

I agree on the bass output for Dared. I think its less controlled.
I turn off my SVS when I use Dared & use purely the Lsi15. But I'm really surprised by the bass o/p of LSi15. I had to double check that my SVS was really off.

I have only tested with Dared & Cary Audio but I'm gonna do more test with Dared and Outlaw amp.

What are the other quality 12AT7 tubes I should try out? I know its all subjective but in your opinion what are the good ones that I should try.
I have Mullard's.
Siemens, Jan-Philips, JJ Telsa, Ei Gold, Harmonix etc.

Can I use GZ34 rectifier tube instead of GZ30 in the preamp? Are they compatible.

ND13

I-SIG wrote:

I can certainly recommend one SS pre that should be very affordable and should have no trouble bettering the Dared and possibly the Dodd as well.

The Audio Alchemy DLC (Digital Line Controller)

They can usually be had for less than $300 used. I suspect that probably around $150 is a more realistic price. It has a remote control, 4 inputs & 2 outputs. Each input is controlled independently, i.e. changing the volume on input 1 will not change the volume for other 3 inputs, etc. There are no tone controls, just inputs, mute, volume, and balance.

The sound was very similar between the Dared and AA-DLC. The main difference was the bass. There was much more contol and less muddle with the DLC than the Dared. Admittedly, there was an occasional CD that sounded a little more airy with the Dared, but those were certainly few and far between and not enough to make up for the mediocre bass.

Wes

Sounds interesting :cool:

Ricardo

malikarshad wrote:

Can I use GZ34 rectifier tube instead of GZ30 in the preamp? Are they compatible.

I bought a 5Z4 just to have a spare.......not sure about the GZ34...

http://www.hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/tubecode.html

faster100

I might have some of those 5z4's but in a metal tube..

Ricardo

That's what I got...metal; have not tried it yet.

audiobliss

Nice write-up Noel; appreciate you going to the effort to do that. You know, having to sit there in front of your speakers having to listen to music for countless hours....:p

That AA-DLC sounds interesting.

faster100

HTrookie wrote:

That's what I got...metal; have not tried it yet.

I'll look and see what i got..

fredv

HTrookie wrote:

Yeah...he is using the Dodd MLP and a moded source....so comparison is not really fair

Hee hee, I think a comparision of 2 pre's in stock forms or both with equivalent class of tubes will be more fair Of course, there is also a possibility that no 12AT7 can compare to the BB. If so, then I think the ELP has the advantage.

W WALDECKER

ND13 wrote:

I'm posting this, because I promised a few that I would tell them what I thought of the two pres.


Ricardo(HTRookie) dropped off his Dared SL2000, on Friday 18th while on his way back home from picking up his SRSs, for me to compare it to my ELP. He picked it back up on Friday 25th, so I had a week to play with it.

The gear used:
Monitor 7As
ASL Wave 20s
Modded AMC CD8b(upgraded Burr DACS and Opamps, Vampire RCAs)
Outlaw ICs between the pre and amps and Signal Analog 1s from source to pre

I'm not an expert by any means and can only state what I heard. I don't use all the fancy terms, so here it goes.

My first impressions of the Dared weren't very positive, but I have to attribute it to the Mullards that were in it. I was quite disappointed with them to be quite honest. He also had a pair of nib Siemens. After letting them burn in for about 35-40 hours, they blossomed quite nicely.

Well back to the "iron". I was very surprised by the weight of the little pre, heavier than the ELP, but mainly due to the chassis and wood trim. The Dared didn't have the soundstage depth and width that the Dodd has, but it's not too far off, especially after the Siemens burned in, but still the Dodd won that battle, imo. SQ was almost a toss up, but I would attribute that to the tubes being used more than anything. I say that because the Mullards were just a bucket of mud to my ears. I was using my faves in the Dodd, an early 60s pair of Amperex 6DJ8 Bugle Boys. That tube hasn't been topped by any of the 9 different pairs I've rolled into the ELP in the last 5 months or so since I got it, but the A-frame, dimpled getter, orange label Amperex that RuSs brought to me at PFest are burning in quite nicely and are as close as I've heard to the SQ of the BBs. The Dared began to grow on me as the days went by and the Siemens burned in, but it never could match the Dodd in the soundstage width and depth and was not quite as precise in centering the vocals as the Dodd was, but not far off.

Overall the Dared is still a great value and it's main advantage, imo, over the Dodd would have to be that it's remote controlled (volume only). The only other advantage would be that it's readily available, with no waiting for it to be built. So that might also be a vote swinger for the unpatient. I will not trash the little Dared, though, because it still beats just about every SS pre I've ever heard, especially those that are affordable. I think you'd have to spend a bundle for a SS pre to sound better than the Dared.

So if you're in the market for an entry level tubed pre, you can't go wrong with either the Dodd ELP or the Dared SL2000. The Dodd edges the Dared out, imo, in it's musical ability and the Dared edges out the Dodd in convenience. One thing to remember about the Dared though, is you will have an extra tube to reckon with, the rectifier.

If you want the best sound for the $$$, be patient and get the Dodd. If you MUST have a remote or can't wait the month or so to get the Dodd, then opt for the Dared, it will not disappoint, with the right tubes, but I'm sure that can be said about the Dodd also.

On a side note, I really enjoyed having Ricardo over for a few hours Friday evening. He's a class act and even brought my wife an apple pie. We got to spend some time comparing the two pres and I don't think that he could hear the differences that I could detect, but that's probably due to my intimacy with the gear. It was the first time that he'd ever heard the 7As and he was very impressed with them as far as I could tell. He couldn't believe the full range sound that they can produce. He actually had to look over at my sub on occassion to make sure that I hadn't hooked it up.;) I believe that the next pair of 7As, with Peerless tweeters, that show up will be nabbed by HTR.
Then we warmed up the Dodd MLP and turned on the Parasound and got our SDA on. He wasn't expecting the sound he heard from the SRS 2s, either. He has the big boys, but doesn't have them properly placed as of yet, so the bass response from them took him by the nads. I'm going to try and make it over to his house soon, so I can help him get his situated right, because his should sound better than mine, I'd have to think. It was nice to finally have someone over to hear my rigs and get some validation. It was also nice to just have someone over that can appreciate the effort.

Thanks Ricardo for dropping by and for leaving the Dared with me to compare. You are welcome back over anytime and hope that you'll take me up on the invitation. Next time, though, plan on spending more time so we can really spend some quality time trying out different types of music. Please post your take on what you thought of the two pres, even though you only got to hear the Dodd for a few songs.

Hey Noel,nice comparison between the Dared SL2000 and the Dodd ELP. i dont think you could go wrong owning either one of them as an entry level preamp or just to test the waters if wanting to try tubes in your system.did you experiment with any other tubes in the Dared ? thanks....WCW III

ND13

fredv wrote:

Hee hee, I think a comparision of 2 pre's in stock forms or both with equivalent class of tubes will be more fair Of course, there is also a possibility that no 12AT7 can compare to the BB. If so, then I think the ELP has the advantage.

I used the BBs in the ELP against what I thought to be his best tubes he had at the time and the Siemens are quite capable of holding their own in the tube world and should continue to get better as they burn in more. They can keep the Mullards as far as I'm concerned, sounded like a bucket 'o mud, imo.

ND13

W WALDECKER wrote:

did you experiment with any other tubes in the Dared ? thanks....WCW III

William,

HTR brought his Mullards and his new Siemens, so that's all I had to roll. I don't own any gear that utilizes 12AT7s, just 12AX7s and 6DJ8 variants.

I did call your tube connection, but got a recording, so I'm waiting on the return call. :cool:

fredv

I found this in local craigslist, not sure anyone is interested in it ....
http://www.craigslist.org/eby/ele/114214044.html

organ

Kick **** post, Noel! I've never heard a T7 like the one on Dared tube but I do love the sound of 6DJ8/6922.

crossroadazn

I have these tubes for the Dared :

ND13

Is that Mullard rectifier a direct replacement???

faster100

Nothing to add, But tubes are freakin cool!! love those last pics

I miss my tubes,

crossroadazn

yes, they're Mullard and Brimar GZ30s beside with RCA and GE 5 stars 12AT7. I will try the Telefunken next. Someone is rolling something else but I'm rolling tubes