Possible to have Dolby Digital without Center?

KrazyMofo24

I have a pair of Rti10's and Rti4's as surrounds. I dont have a center speaker right now and my receiver is set at 4 speakers. Salesman at Fry's and Best Buy said that you cannot have dolby digital without a center channel. I want to know if thats true and how much surround effects am I losing for not having it.

BIZILL

you are losing all dialogue. but with movies like war of the worlds, who cares. anyway, there are other modes to listen to movies with until you get that center. stereo mode sounds fun. pro logic is an option, sort of as well as other soundfields offered by many manufaturers.

KrazyMofo24

I'm not losing any dialogue they are going through my rti10's what i'm asking is i'm losing surround effects and will it be better to use one my rti4's as a center and use a cheap speaker for surround.

BIZILL

my bad, read too fast. you mentioned you already had your system set up for four speakers. anyway, back to your original question..you are reproducing dolby digital, but not as 'discretely' as was intended. i've read a few here roll without a center. i believe macleod and i thought sid the kid did without and are totally happy. i myself most definately prefer utilizing a center channel speaker. and for your last question, no, you're not losing any 'surround' effects doing what you're doing. but i'd keep the rti10's and keep the rti4's for surrounds and just get yourself a csi5 and enjoy.

John K.

KM, as you've already learned on your own, if you set your receiver to show that you have no center speaker then any sound intended for the center is reproduced from the mains and creates a "phantom center". The salesman didn't know what he was talking about. This works very well for someone sitting about in the center, but a central sound will shift to the right or left as someone moves off center(but it won't move farther out than the speaker on that side). As to the surround sound, the surround speakers get it as usual and the absence of a center speaker makes no difference whatever.

dudeinaroom

I set My receiver up for no center, and I have a pair of sda2's and it actually sounds better than having the center running, now sounds move across the the front of the sound stage with no jumping. and stuff that should be on screen, sounds like its coming from the tv, instead of above it.

Larry Chanin

John K. wrote:

KM, as you've already learned on your own, if you set your receiver to show that you have no center speaker then any sound intended for the center is reproduced from the mains and creates a "phantom center". The salesman didn't know what he was talking about. This works very well for someone sitting about in the center, but a central sound will shift to the right or left as someone moves off center(but it won't move farther out than the speaker on that side). As to the surround sound, the surround speakers get it as usual and the absence of a center speaker makes no difference whatever.

dudeinaroom wrote:

I set My receiver up for no center, and I have a pair of sda2's and it actually sounds better than having the center running, now sounds move across the the front of the sound stage with no jumping. and stuff that should be on screen, sounds like its coming from the tv, instead of above it.

Hi Krazy,

John is correct.

People sitting off-axis will not hear accurate sound pressure levels as intended by the director. Those members of the audience sitting closest to a main speaker will hear sounds louder than intended. The result will be as John describes, the sonic image may erroneously shift right or left depending on which speaker the person is nearest.

However, it is possible that this shifting can be mitigated somewhat. Human hearing is such that it has a tendency to be fooled into thinking sounds are coming from visual cues, such as the on-screen action. The closer the mains are together, the less of a problem this sonic shifting will be.

In my theater I use SDA-1C's for the mains. They are spaced 13 feet apart to place them on either side of my screen. That leaves a huge sonic hole between the mains that would be very apparent to members of the audience seating off-axis, and shifting would be severe. My solution was to place two SDA-CRS+'s above and below the screen, to reproduce the discrete center channel. This vertically stacked centers configuration produces a phantom image that is vertically centered on the screen. Sending them the discrete center channel information then correctly centers the sonic image horizontally as well.

The CRS+s, having identical tweeters and mid-range drivers as my mains, produce virtually the same quality sound as my mains, in the mid to upper range. Both my mains and centers hand off deep bass duties to my other subwoofers. Obviously when the quality of the mains is significantly better than the center speaker, shifting issues aside, it will be more likely that the sound quality of a phantom center will be better than that of the center speaker. The solution is to use speakers of high quality for mains and center with the same timbre.

Larry

gidrah

I run 4.1 and couldn't be happier. I've got a couple of center speakers and the amps, just not the inclination.

dudeinaroom

Didn't think of people sitting out side the sweet spot, but then again who cares as long as i'm there., just kidding. I switch back and forth from5.1 to 4.1. My center really sucks, it's 2 paniconic sats. with a horn tweeter set between them. My rear are infinity sm 100's, not the best match to my polks, but not to bad. Had a 15" klh sub, that is in storage, The polks do bass wwwwaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better.

Larry Chanin

dudeinaroom wrote:

Didn't think of people sitting out side the sweet spot, but then again who cares as long as i'm there., just kidding. I switch back and forth from5.1 to 4.1. My center really sucks, it's 2 paniconic sats. with a horn tweeter set between them. My rear are infinity sm 100's, not the best match to my polks, but not to bad. Had a 15" klh sub, that is in storage, The polks do bass wwwwaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better.

Hi dude,

I realize that you're kidding, but some folks forget that in a home theater setup with an audience most of the people are sitting off-axis. In these cases we're trying to accommodate the acoustics of a "sweet area" instead of a "sweet spot". When dealing with an audience instead of a solitary listener, the more physical speakers, the better. I can assure you that even though my preamp can be switched to 4.1, the 7.1 setting is light-years better, both on-axis and off.

Larry

mldennison

krazy,
i would suggest that you try hooking up one of your rti4's as center and listening to a few movies with just the fronts and the center so you can see if you notice a difference. i would suggest something like a comedy that is heavier in dialogue than in effects. i would think that it will sound better with the center channel there but it is just to you to decide if it is worth the extra cash...