The Psychotic Rant of a Former Audiophile

Early B.

Just got off my 3-month hiatus from the forum and thought I’d take a moment to rant about this hobby and hopefully get flamed for it so I can feel nostalgic. Here goes...

Every so often we should take a critical look at ourselves and ask, “What the f*ck am I doing?”

Lately I’ve been wondering why I engage in critical listening in a feeble attempt to improve my system and make it appear more similar to a sound that doesn’t exist. Hell, if you ask me what I want my system to ultimately sound like, I couldn’t tell you. And even if I could, my opinion would change tomorrow.

Here’s the stupidest thing of all -- we constantly compare the sound of audio components or systems to live music. However, when we go to a concert, we don’t analyze the sound in the same manner that we evaluate our audio systems.

If you listen to most live music, especially a rock concert, you’ll notice that it’s often difficult to clearly distinguish each instrument, and even more difficult to clearly hear the vocals. Nevertheless, it was great concert, wasn't it? In fact, those issues aren’t particularly important to most of us. Have you ever walked away from a rock concert disappointed because each instrument wasn’t clearly discernable? But if we don’t hear a high degree of instrumental clarity in our audio systems, it’s time for an upgrade or a tweak.

A live performance is both a visual and auditory experience, and I dare say it is more stimulating visually than auditory because most live performances sound crappy. Our stereo systems can never duplicate the emotional and visual effects of a live performance, so comparisons between live music and 2-channel audio borders on insanity. Ultimately, the only thing about a great 2-channel system is the feeling the music gives you, not the soundstage, imaging, and all that other audiophile-type ****.

If you want to determine whether or not your system is a good one, there’s only one major consideration – how does the music make you feel? Because any other pointless critique merely masks the fact that you aren’t really enjoying your music.

Here’s my latest battle cry -- “NO MORE UPGRADES. NO MORE TWEAKS. I DON’T WANNA BE AN AUDIOPHILE GEEK.”

Say it with me…

Dennis Gardner

Please send your Jolida my way, since your Pioneer will no doubt be adequate in your new found "average is good enough for me" world.

polkatese

Timely rant. Btw, welcome back!. As Art Dudley ranted on the latest Stereophile "As We See It": Music lovers buy torch songs from their favorite singers-Bessie, Billie, whomever-because that's what they want to hear. Audiophiles buy the same songs from Jacintha because they're well recorded...." how true!

Tour2ma

Wheeew... Thought for a minute this was going to be another Lazurusman thread...

There's live music (Symphony Orch, etc.) and then there's amplified music that's played live (Rock concerts, etc.). IMO it's the characteristics of the venue that create the live sensation...

I'll pass on the pledge, EB... welcome back.

dorokusai

Hearing is believing.

lomic

I see music live to experience it, and listen at home to enjoy it

VR3

Well in my "vast" experience I've found that buying a pair of speakers you ENJOY - while having detail is better than buying an extremely detailed speaker you can only listen to a few songs on.

The more detailed you get... the limited your song selection gets. If your trying to find the "perfect" setup - your going to hang yourself with your own craziness.

danger boy

Early B. wrote:

Just got off my 3-month hiatus from the forum and thought I’d take a moment to rant about this hobby and hopefully get flamed for it so I can feel nostalgic. Here goes...

Every so often we should take a critical look at ourselves and ask, “What the f*ck am I doing?”

Lately I’ve been wondering why I engage in critical listening in a feeble attempt to improve my system and make it appear more similar to a sound that doesn’t exist. Hell, if you ask me what I want my system to ultimately sound like, I couldn’t tell you. And even if I could, my opinion would change tomorrow.

Here’s the stupidest thing of all -- we constantly compare the sound of audio components or systems to live music. However, when we go to a concert, we don’t analyze the sound in the same manner that we evaluate our audio systems.

If you listen to most live music, especially a rock concert, you’ll notice that it’s often difficult to clearly distinguish each instrument, and even more difficult to clearly hear the vocals. Nevertheless, it was great concert, wasn't it? In fact, those issues aren’t particularly important to most of us. Have you ever walked away from a rock concert disappointed because each instrument wasn’t clearly discernable? But if we don’t hear a high degree of instrumental clarity in our audio systems, it’s time for an upgrade or a tweak.

A live performance is both a visual and auditory experience, and I dare say it is more stimulating visually than auditory because most live performances sound crappy. Our stereo systems can never duplicate the emotional and visual effects of a live performance, so comparisons between live music and 2-channel audio borders on insanity. Ultimately, the only thing about a great 2-channel system is the feeling the music gives you, not the soundstage, imaging, and all that other audiophile-type ****.

If you want to determine whether or not your system is a good one, there’s only one major consideration – how does the music make you feel? Because any other pointless critique merely masks the fact that you aren’t really enjoying your music.

Here’s my latest battle cry -- “NO MORE UPGRADES. NO MORE TWEAKS. I DON’T WANNA BE AN AUDIOPHILE GEEK.”

Say it with me…

You are correct. There HAS to be a certain point where we just take a break from swapping/tweaking and just enjoy what we've worked to put together. I think sometimes we spend more time doing that then actually enjoing what we've put together.

So what if for 30 days you don't upgrade or tweak this or that.. maybe in the long run... it doesn't need it. Is that even possible? Yeah it is. Everyone of us has something they are currently contemplating changing or upgrading. C'mon admit it. ha ha ha.

Just sit back for a minute and listen to the rig you've put together and enjoy it this Thanksgiving with your family and friends. I'm sure they'll be impressed with your knowledge of electronics and the time and effort you've put into tweaking your system.

janmike

I find that if sound quality is not on their list, the music coming from a $20K system and a Radio Shack all-in-one unit sound the same. I've had people listen to what I have (by no means a $20K system) and those who are remotely connected with the audio world comment on the clarity. For the others, its noise and it would not matter what the source was. I think this audio thing is a learned behaviour. Like a fine wine, a 15 year old white cheddar (my god that's good), or a high-end audio system, it takes time and experience to learn to appreciate the finer details. Exposure is the only solution to mastery.

TroyD

I've never used live as the standard for comparison. Live and recorded is apples and oranges.

Critical listening makes up a small percentage of my listening time....my choice of gear is more aimed at being musical as opposed to accurate.

BDT

reeltrouble1

Hi Early,

Well I agree to a point about visual rock concerts, they are about the music though, let the band stop playing and zip the magic is gone.

I dont do to much rock anymore on my rigs, I find myself being drawn to acoustical music, jazz, classical, even listening to one well played instrument, close my eyes and it just floats. Well placed vocals, even accapelo, like AK doing her thing. The string instruments are still my favorites, but its all good.

RT1

jmierzur

Hi Early B,

Welcome back.

As for myself, my goal is to have my system sound like a live performance. My choice of performance differs somewhat from yours, as I would select the performance of a symphony orchestra. The season tickets we held four seasons ago in the Dress Circle (best seats in the house) before the children were born provided a detailed, dynamic, etc. soundstage I would dearly love to duplicate in my own room. That is my goal.

I can not remember the last time I was at a rock concert. And in all honesty, I do not miss the experience as I have no desire to see the big names as they roll through town, nor do I care to duplicate that experience in-house.

I have always enjoyed listening to music regardless of the source. Music from a clock radio moves me as much as from a live performance. OK, not quite as much, but you get my point.

I have never been one to constantly flip components so I will also pass on your pled.

jdhdiggs

For me, my system is now "Good Enough" as I don't have any desire to upgrade anything right now. For my ears, everything is very involving and nice so I don't see the point. This is part of the reason for me posting less and less hear as I don't have the upgrade bug as much. I still read the forum, but without really trying to push for a "what's next" idea, it's hard to post a lot.

Anyway, I just like the way my system sounds. Who cares if it sounds live or not.

BlueMDPicker

Tour2ma wrote:

IMO it's the characteristics of the venue that create the live sensation...

Give that man a cigar! Nevermind, he took another pledge.

IMO, a recording can have a very much live dynamic. It's more about the SQ of the source than the gear to me. Talented recording engineers can put you there. People like David Manley and David Z can count me as a loyal follower regardless of the genre they're working in.

Nice to hear from you, EB.

cfrizz

Welcome back Early! And I think you & Danger have the best outlooks with regards to this crazy hobby of ours!

PolkThug

I just want my system to reproduce what is on the source CD/DVD the best it can, within my budget.

Early B.

PolkThug wrote:

I just want my system to reproduce what is on the source CD/DVD the best it can, within my budget.

Perfectly practical. I nominate PT's statement as the quote of the week.

In the past I've been guilty of venturing beyond my budget in an effort achieve sonic nirvana. The maddness has gotta stop. The good thing, though, is that I'm enjoying my music and I rarely do the critical listening thing 'cause that's what creates the desire to tweak, mod, and upgrade.

shack

To each their own.

1) For some the hobby is all about the journey...the thrill of the hunt...finding and assembling the rig. The gear, the cables, the tubes are what get them fired up. The end result (the music) is often just the pleasant by-product of the process.

2) For others it is the sound and the assembling of the gear is merely an exercise of necessity in trying to obtain that sound. These are the "critical listeners" or audiophiles. They probably have several versions of the same recording looking for that elusive "perfect sound". The gear is very important as it relates to obtaining the sound, but is expendable if it fails to provide nirvana.

3) Then there are the "music lovers" who may have had the same rig for years but are constantly buy new CDs, vinyl, tapes and have hundreds, if not thousands of recordings. Or maybe they have the same few recordings that they listen to over and over...but it is truely about the music.

4) Then there are the "collectors" of gear and music. A subcategory of the first and 3rd segments. The hunt is the thing but...instead of replacing a rig once comlplete they simply get another one and can't part with the predecessor. Finding that rare Japanese pressing of KC and the Sunshine Band is the goal.

While there are those that fall strictly in the categories above...most of us have elements of each that attract us to this hobby. A person can be obsessive, casual, passionate or whatever about the gear, the music, the sound etc... They can like it all or just some of the aspects of the hobby. It's all good. We can constantly change the way we choose to do audio or we can remain the same for our lifetime. Do whatever you enjoy and don't criticize others for the way they pursue the hobby. It's their money, their time, their enjoyment....(just as it is yours) and after all it's not life or death....IT IS ONLY A HOBBY. Just have fun.

Early B.

Great post, Shack.

HBombToo

polkatese wrote:

Timely rant. Btw, welcome back!. As Art Dudley ranted on the latest Stereophile "As We See It": Music lovers buy torch songs from their favorite singers-Bessie, Billie, whomever-because that's what they want to hear. Audiophiles buy the same songs from Jacintha because they're well recorded...." how true!

I read this also and after reading it again I remain clueless as to what it means... Help out a dumb guy please.

Henry

McLoki

Why we do the things we do…..

I really like my audio system. It sounds great, looks nice in my living room, and my wife doesn’t hate it. I even get occasional validation from other Club Polk members that it sounds good. ( always nice to get a compliment from your peers) so why do I want to upgrade? (current plans are to ditch the AVR that I am using as a pre-amp and purchase an actual pre/pro and I would LOVE to upgrade my front speakers to SDA’s if I can convince my wife they belong in the living room. )

Read any review of a decent pre/pro and it will say how it makes the sound travel seamlessly from the front speakers to the rear. It sonically transports you to the scene you are watching. I really like the sound of my system, but it has never once tried to convince me I was standing in the middle of a holo-deck from Star-Trek. No matter how good it sounds, I can never feel the rain on my face or the crunch of gravel under my feet like these sonic miracles the reviewers have, seem to do.

You can get 6 Polk R-15’s and a cheap AVR for under $300-$400. The move from TV speakers to surround with Polks cheapest speakers is HUGE. Move from that to my LSi7 – SVS – Onkyo – Cinepro setup and you will notice the difference, but it is still not as huge as that first jump into surround sound.

I keep upgrading looking for that next big revelation. The wonder of “wow – I thought I had a good system but damn where was that hiding?” I am well into the land of diminishing returns with my system. Most of my upgrades from this point on will be of marginal differences. I will not be able to have my wife pick any movie, throw it in, and with almost any part of the movie have her say that was “$500-$1000 well spent” like I could have with the very first (and cheaper) upgrade mentioned above.

She thinks I am mental for wanting to spend this kind of money to upgrade a very good sounding system. For me it is no longer a sound system though it is a hobby.

Changes are for the sake of change, just to see what happens. I want to experience not just read about what works and what doesn’t. I don’t care about some reviewers holo-deck audio system – I just want to know if it works or doesn’t and recreate it (for a fraction of the price if possible) in my living room.

My name is Michael Hand and I am an audioholic. Thankfully I have found a number of others to share my disease with. (and even a few I can look at and say “see, I’m not really that bad…” )

Michael

BTW - welcome back to the fold Early B.

McLoki

Shack - Great post. very well written and thought out.

Michael

madmax

Early B. wrote:

we constantly compare the sound of audio components or systems to live music. However, when we go to a concert, we don’t analyze the sound in the same manner that we evaluate our audio systems.

I do.

Now, sit back, listen some more and get back on the upgrade train!

madmax

Ricardo

At different levels, there is ALWAYS something that sounds better than what you have. As long as you don't know this, you are fine, but the moment you realize that you can actually make your system sound better, you just need to go for it.

At least that's how it works for me; I was really happy with my HT setup until I listened to McLoki's.....I don't care much for his LSi's vs my RTi's....or even the 500w per channel power because I think my Denon gives me all I need (I actually tried going with separate amps and did not find it worth the additional cost..so I returned them)..BUT.....his sub...I just cannot take that out of my mind.....I was so happy with my PB10-ISD...damn!!!

Anyone knows if SVS will take my PB10 for an upgrade????

criverajr

Polksters,

I have mixed feelings althought I like my 2 systems it seems like their is no easy way to stay away from the upgrade paths of this HOBBY. I have also slowed down in upgrading as I can honestly say that my systems to me atleast sound really, really good. I have gone from the bottom end of the polk series to the top end and can say that their is a difference but is their something I am missing I don't know until I find it. I have also said to myself that I will not upgrade just to upgrade, example: I purchased a tube pre and slid it into my system, rolled some tubes and just didn't like the sound to my SS setup, different strokes I guess. I can say that I tried it and it was not for me. I was going to pull the trigger on an SVS and then recalibrated my system after the new home was built and I have found it to sound quite nice just the way it is. I can't say I won't buy anything else but I think I have gotten over the "impulse" but part of this HOBBY.

CRj

Tour2ma

shack wrote:

Finding that rare Japanese pressing of KC and the Sunshine Band is the goal.

Do you know hwere I can get a copy?

shack

Tour2ma wrote:

Do you know hwere I can get a copy?

You can borrow mine if you take good care of it.

organ

Welcome back!

I agree with a lot of the things you say. I go to see live shows quite often. I remember my first concert. I came home and told myself, that's the kind of sound I want. Soundstaging and depth took a dive down my list and dynamics/slam/clarity/effortlessness became my priority. That's why I ended up with the gear I have now. When I go to concerts, I'm very happy because my system sounds so close. My favorite spot is front row center. That's where you hear the monitors more than the PA. More clarity up there.

I'm glad I was able to find my sound so soon because if I didn't I'd be broke.

Maurice

PolkThug

HBombToo wrote:

I read this also and after reading it again I remain clueless as to what it means... Help out a dumb guy please.

Henry

I think its kind of like me buying a Telarc SACD. I bought it just because I wanted to hear what well recorded music sounded like.

reeltrouble1

PT,

Feel free to send me all that non well recorded music, I am in one of those, Oh I got new stuff phases where you listen to every cd you have!! So what did you think of the Telarc??

RT1

PS--Madmax and TroyD Rock. High on my Christmas Card list.

opus

McLoki wrote:

Why we do the things we do…..

I really like my audio system. It sounds great, looks nice in my living room, and my wife doesn’t hate it. I even get occasional validation from other Club Polk members that it sounds good. ( always nice to get a compliment from your peers) so why do I want to upgrade? (current plans are to ditch the AVR that I am using as a pre-amp and purchase an actual pre/pro and I would LOVE to upgrade my front speakers to SDA’s if I can convince my wife they belong in the living room. )

Read any review of a decent pre/pro and it will say how it makes the sound travel seamlessly from the front speakers to the rear. It sonically transports you to the scene you are watching. I really like the sound of my system, but it has never once tried to convince me I was standing in the middle of a holo-deck from Star-Trek. No matter how good it sounds, I can never feel the rain on my face or the crunch of gravel under my feet like these sonic miracles the reviewers have, seem to do.

You can get 6 Polk R-15’s and a cheap AVR for under $300-$400. The move from TV speakers to surround with Polks cheapest speakers is HUGE. Move from that to my LSi7 – SVS – Onkyo – Cinepro setup and you will notice the difference, but it is still not as huge as that first jump into surround sound.

I keep upgrading looking for that next big revelation. The wonder of “wow – I thought I had a good system but damn where was that hiding?” I am well into the land of diminishing returns with my system. Most of my upgrades from this point on will be of marginal differences. I will not be able to have my wife pick any movie, throw it in, and with almost any part of the movie have her say that was “$500-$1000 well spent” like I could have with the very first (and cheaper) upgrade mentioned above.

She thinks I am mental for wanting to spend this kind of money to upgrade a very good sounding system. For me it is no longer a sound system though it is a hobby.

Changes are for the sake of change, just to see what happens. I want to experience not just read about what works and what doesn’t. I don’t care about some reviewers holo-deck audio system – I just want to know if it works or doesn’t and recreate it (for a fraction of the price if possible) in my living room.

My name is Michael Hand and I am an audioholic. Thankfully I have found a number of others to share my disease with. (and even a few I can look at and say “see, I’m not really that bad…” )

Michael

BTW - welcome back to the fold Early B.

Well said. From now on you speak for me. Anyone has any questions for me pm McLoki.

Your line about being a hobby is so true. My friends all have Harleys. I have a Home Theater. I can't afford to do both so I choose the hobby that I don't have to wear a helmet.(SVS notwithstanding)