csi 5 set to small? Sounded better at large?

james vaughan

As I have read many times on this forum before, you should always set your speakers to small and not large. Was goofing around the other night going back and forth with the new center channel and was amazed how how mutch more depth or vocal base and I mean in a clean way was added to the center buy switching it to large. Now I always read and rarely post but was curious as to why this made a posative difference in my system? My left and rights are the rt 55i's and I got a pop out of the right main when set to large. Crossover is set to 80hrz. So I guess I will have to buy the rti12 to keep up with the center. Am running 250 watts to the center and 300 per side to the left and right. Just was not sure why the center channel would not loose its integrety as the rt 55i did at the same volume. Was told the drivers are the same. Also made me wonder about the bookshelf versus floor standing for better overall re3sponse in the system.
Thanks for any replys.

Tour2ma

Two ?'s...

1. What sub are you using?
2. Have you calibrated your HT?

danger boy

setting your speakers to small isn't written in stone. it's only a suggestion. most people in their set up's will yeild the best bass output from their subwoofer if all their other speakers are set to small.

but some front/mains can handle a decent amount of bass..so large is ok there.
try it both ways.. and see what sounds best to you.

james vaughan

Tour2ma wrote:

Two ?'s...

1. What sub are you using?
2. Have you calibrated your HT?

I am using svs pb12plus2.
Yes it is calibrated.
Again thank you for your help.

Tour2ma

James,

First, before I forget again.. Welcome to the Club. Second, db's correct, there is no one way you have to go. Most here favor small for any number of reasons, but some prefer large.

I'm not surprised the CSi5 is sounding different from the 55i's when the added LF info is routed to it. While I do not think the drivers are same, I'm sure the 5's power ports are going to ensure a difference.

I think the 5 may just be getting slightly louder, which makes it seem disproportionally richer. To be fair, you'd need to recalibrate the system when set to large.

What still concerns me is the right channel pop. Is the LFE routed to the sub in both cases, i.e., speakers large and small?

james vaughan

Tour2ma wrote:

James,

First, before I forget again.. Welcome to the Club. Second, db's correct, there is no one way you have to go. Most here favor small for any number of reasons, but some prefer large.

I'm not surprised the CSi5 is sounding different from the 55i's when the added LF info is routed to it. While I do not think the drivers are same, I'm sure the 5's power ports are going to ensure a difference.

I think the 5 may just be getting slightly louder, which makes it seem disproportionally richer. To be fair, you'd need to recalibrate the system when set to large.

What still concerns me is the right channel pop. Is the LFE routed to the sub in both cases, i.e., speakers large and small?

I have the denon 3805 with the speaker settings at large for the front three and the lfe going to the svs. Was doing this test with Star Wars ep. 3 using senator palpotines voice as the test with center set to large and that is where I noticed a very big improvement in the center channel. The pop on the right speaker came from an action sequence later in the movie. But that is what made me wonder if the 55 needed to be upgraded to the rti12 or 10s. And it was not at referance levels iether, set at about -10db. I will rty the recalibration with it set to large then and see what that does.
Are you for floorstanding speakers? I am thinking it might improve my systems overall sound. I like the more in your face but not shrill sound like at a theater, or at least that is what I am trying to achieve.
Thank you all agian.

Tour2ma

The "very big improvement" suggests a blend issue with your sub, but flat FR is an individual taste.

As high as you are crossing over with LFE going to the sub, I'm kinda surprised the 55 has an issue unless a driver is going bad. I'd check out the offending 55... When it popped was it a strong right channel effect, or was the signal to the left similar?

As for 10's or 12's... for music sans sub either might be an improvement (only holding back here due to no experience with the 55's). Of all the current Polk lines, including the LSi's, the RTi10's are my favorite.

Yes, the 10's will dig deeper and yes, they handle more power, but in HT crossed out at 80 Hz, I don't see any major benefit. The 55's already can handle all your 3805 can throw.

ohskigod

I've been running my theater speakers on large yesterday. yes, the bass out put suffers a little, especially on music, but I find during bass heavy scenes in movies that the bass is more accurate and natural. in other words, I'll be running the speaks in Large for a while.

james vaughan

Tour2ma wrote:

The "very big improvement" suggests a blend issue with your sub, but flat FR is an individual taste.

As high as you are crossing over with LFE going to the sub, I'm kinda surprised the 55 has an issue unless a driver is going bad. I'd check out the offending 55... When it popped was it a strong right channel effect, or was the signal to the left similar?

As for 10's or 12's... for music sans sub either might be an improvement (only holding back here due to no experience with the 55's). Of all the current Polk lines, including the LSi's, the RTi10's are my favorite.

Yes, the 10's will dig deeper and yes, they handle more power, but in HT crossed out at 80 Hz, I don't see any major benefit. The 55's already can handle all your 3805 can throw.

I am running a qsc powerlight 1.4 to the 55i's at 300 watta a side and am using the denon amps for the surrounds only. IF the speakers are set to large than is the cross over in the denon void or is the speaker still crossed over at 80 hrz just getting more bass signal. I thought if the speakers were set to large then the cross over was a non issue (not turned on to those speakers set to large). I do not understand the blend issue with the sub beings it was tested on purley a vocal passage in the movie no explosions or special effects, a very quiet vocal passage, his voice was very defined and the sound was warmer more life like, when switched to small it was enemic and less present and the actual precieved volume from the center stayed the same no matter what setting.
It was not a popping that speaker made but more of a over stressed sound I just didnt no how to describe it and it only came from the right speaker but the scene deliverd equal info to both left and right at that particular moment.
Very hungry for info here, Why do you like towers better and what made you go with the 10 over the 12 in the rti series? What I discoverd the other day really makes me wonder about the whole small speaker issue at least in the fronts keeping bookshelf sized in the back but going bigger up front.
Thank you all again for input and still learning, spend more time reading then posting until somthing comes up like this. Thanks again.

james vaughan

ohskigod wrote:

I've been running my theater speakers on large yesterday. yes, the bass out put suffers a little, especially on music, but I find during bass heavy scenes in movies that the bass is more accurate and natural. in other words, I'll be running the speaks in Large for a while.

I didnt notice any bass sufferings from my sub like others have said here before and I nly listen to ht and not music so I do not know how the large setting would effect that . Let me know what you think after testing it that way for a time period. To me it makes sense to run settings to large unless you have a sub sat. set up. But then again I always post questions and never give advice. Again still learning.

sickicw

you dont have to buy rti12s to keep up with the center. The rti 6 has about the same frequency response as the csi5, and if you want lower responses look at the rti 8 or 10. If you want the rti12s, go ahead, but expect to buy a sperate amp to push em. As for the small vs large, the ideal solution is to set the center at small and set the center crossover as low as the speaker is designed for. With the rti5, i'd do small with a crossover of 50 - 60hz. The higher you set the crossover, the less "full" it will sound. If you put the center channel on large, then you will be feeding it frequencies that it was not designed for, and will make it sound worse than if it was crossovered properly (properly being relative to how it sounds to you). using crossovers is also important in subwoofer integration, so unless your speaker can handle really low frequencies, dont set it to large.

james vaughan

sickicw wrote:

you dont have to buy rti12s to keep up with the center. The rti 6 has about the same frequency response as the csi5, and if you want lower responses look at the rti 8 or 10. If you want the rti12s, go ahead, but expect to buy a sperate amp to push em. As for the small vs large, the ideal solution is to set the center at small and set the center crossover as low as the speaker is designed for. With the rti5, i'd do small with a crossover of 50 - 60hz. The higher you set the crossover, the less "full" it will sound. If you put the center channel on large, then you will be feeding it frequencies that it was not designed for, and will make it sound worse than if it was crossovered properly (properly being relative to how it sounds to you). using crossovers is also important in subwoofer integration, so unless your speaker can handle really low frequencies, dont set it to large.

I am running seperate amps to all the front channels so power would not be the issue. So you are saying to set it to small but drop the cross over to lower than 80 hrz and it will give me the same sound? If set to large than that means eveything being sent to my sub is also being sent to my speakers set on large? Like below 30 hrz?
Thnaks again.

sickicw

yea, setting to small usually just means that you are going to use the built in crossover of the receiver or pre amp. If you want more bass from your main speakers, just use a lower crossover value.

Tour2ma

No disrespect, sickicw, but you do not want to drop the AVR's x-over near the point where the speaker FR is rolling off naturally... that's inviting double filtering in the x-over region. A 50-60 Hz setting for the CSi5 (-3 db @ 55 Hz) or the RTi6's (-3 db @ 50 Hz) is just too low... 80 Hz is a good choice.

james,
You are correct about the full range signal going to a given speaker if it is set to large, but I think (not 100% sure about the 3805) the cross-over is still routing the <80 Hz to the sub. So the less than 80 Hz info is now being produced by multiple sources. This will have a warming effect much like the old "Loudness" contour switch which at low volume levels boosted some of the lower frequencies signal. (osg, not sure how your Outlaw manages bass, but the above may be what you are experiencing as well.)

While the above may be enjoyable in the short term, it may start to seem artifical in the long term... or not. Again a change from small to large, or vice versa, means you should recalibrate your HT... but in the end, it is what sounds best to you.

On your sub-sat comment... That's essentially what your 55's/ SVS combo or any other is. So the goal is the same: seamless integration. And that means careful calibration

As for the RTi10's... I don't own them or any "modern" Polks, just did an extensive audition for grins a while back. I felt the 12's bass was a little bloated in comparison to the 10's, but you really have to decide for yourself.

james vaughan

Tour2ma wrote:

No disrespect, sickicw, but you do not want to drop the AVR's x-over near the point where the speaker FR is rolling off naturally... that's inviting double filtering in the x-over region. A 50-60 Hz setting for the CSi5 (-3 db @ 55 Hz) or the RTi6's (-3 db @ 50 Hz) is just too low... 80 Hz is a good choice.

james,
You are correct about the full range signal going to a given speaker if it is set to large, but I think (not 100% sure about the 3805) the cross-over is still routing the <80 Hz to the sub. So the less than 80 Hz info is now being produced by multiple sources. This will have a warming effect much like the old "Loudness" contour switch which at low volume levels boosted some of the lower frequencies signal. (osg, not sure how your Outlaw manages bass, but the above may be what you are experiencing as well.)

While the above may be enjoyable in the short term, it may start to seem artifical in the long term... or not. Again a change from small to large, or vice versa, means you should recalibrate your HT... but in the end, it is what sounds best to you.

On your sub-sat comment... That's essentially what your 55's/ SVS combo or any other is. So the goal is the same: seamless integration. And that means careful calibration

As for the RTi10's... I don't own them or any "modern" Polks, just did an extensive audition for grins a while back. I felt the 12's bass was a little bloated in comparison to the 10's, but you really have to decide for yourself.

Thank you tour2ma. I will do some more testing and go by ear. I will also go give those 10's a listen to compared to the 12's.
Thanks again.

Tour2ma

You're welcome... Let us know what you end up doing.