How important is a reciver?

Josh-S
Josh-S Posts: 160
edited November 2005 in Electronics
This may seem like a simple question. But at what point are you spending too much on a reciver and not enough on speakers? Or vise versa? How does one determin how much money they should put into the reciver? I see alot that can be had for $250. But If I'm gona spend 1.5K on speakers and a sub should'nt I put more into a amp? At what point are the speakers more capable then the reciver?

See what hapens when I tink too dep into things :eek:
Post edited by Josh-S on
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Comments

  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited November 2005
    My advice is to go to as many audio/video stores as you can and demo equipment. Take your own CD's with you for listening material. Then try to figure out which combo sounds the best for your total budget.
  • Schris22
    Schris22 Posts: 983
    edited November 2005
    speakers are usually the first thing than a receiver and like polkthug says match equipment for the sound you like.

    But of course a speaker underpowered or not properly powered is better than a great receiver with crappy speakers.

    Good luck

    Chris
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR502-S
    DVD Player: Pioneer DV-578A-S
    Left and Right: R50
    Center: CS1
    Rear Center: R15
    Surrounds: R30
    Subwoofer: 10'' Dayton 100 Watt
  • Josh-S
    Josh-S Posts: 160
    edited November 2005
    Where should I aim my power ratio to? 70 - 75% of maximum recomended RMS?
  • mldennison
    mldennison Posts: 307
    edited November 2005
    i think others can direct you better as to exactly how much you need but the reason for spending more on a receiver or amplifier is simple: you system will only sound as good as the worst component. if you spend the money on the speakers and dont bother with the amplifier, you are just not going to be as happy as you would if you spent the extra money. the same goes for your cd/dvd player and cables (although with diminishing returns for your money).
  • dkg999
    dkg999 Posts: 5,647
    edited November 2005
    Your listening preferences will somewhat impact the ratio and choices. If you like to listen at loud levels, then you are going to need a pretty good amp/receiver to make a quality pair of speakers sing! If you listen at low to moderate levels, then you can use an amp/receiver of lesser quality, or a higher quality amp/receiver with less power rating at a lesser price. In my opinion and experience, attempting to balance the quality of the amp/receiver seems to work best in most scenarios. I would start by looking at amp/receivers that equaled the cost of the speakers I like and work from there by listening to different combinations, and seeking out opinions via various internet forums. Good luck!
    DKG999
    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC
  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited November 2005
    I would say find a receiver that has all the features that you like & most important, make sure it comes with pre-outs.

    The reason for this is so you have upgradebility for more powerful separate amplifiers down the line.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
  • BIZILL
    BIZILL Posts: 5,432
    edited November 2005
    like when buying a computer, go with the cliche of, "buy the best that you can afford". and don't worry, as you age and gain a higher salary, you'll eventually upgrade if you're not happy with what you buy now. damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    POLK SDA-SRS 1.2TL -- ADCOM GFA-5802
    PANASONIC PT-AE4000U -- DIY WILSONART DW 135" 2.35:1 SCREEN
    ONKYO TX-SR805
    CENTER: CSI5
    MAINS: RTI8'S
    SURROUNDS: RTI8'S
    7.1 SURROUNDS: RTI6'S
    SUB: SVS PB12-PLUS/2 (12.3 series)

    XBOX 360
    WiiPS3/blu-rayTOSHIBA HD-A35 hd dvd

    http://polkarmy.com/forums/index.php
    bobman1235 wrote:
    I have no facts to back that up, but I never let facts get in the way of my arguments.
  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited November 2005
    Do NOT get something withOUT preouts; they're necessary. Also, like I said in your other thread, don't put too much weight on the claimed wattage.
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    In Use
    PS3, Yamaha CDR-HD1300, Plex, Amazon Fire TV Gen 2
    Pioneer Elite VSX-52, Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-82ii, RC-62ii, RS-42ii, RW-10d
    Epson 8700UB

    In Storage
    [Home Audio]
    Rotel RCD-02, Yamaha KX-W900U, Sony ST-S500ES, Denon DP-7F
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII, Parasound P/HP-850, ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Klipsch RF-35, RB-51ii

    [Car Audio]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP, Memphis 16-MCA3004, Boston Acoustic RC520
  • DarkHorror
    DarkHorror Posts: 73
    edited November 2005
    It really depends on the receiver, some give you a lot more for your money. Also depends on what you need it to do in terms of features. Though after picking up a Panasonic XR55, I highly suggest people try one of those.
  • Josh-S
    Josh-S Posts: 160
    edited November 2005
    BIZILL,

    I noticed your setup in your sig. I actualy have that same setup planed except for the lesser model reciver 635, and I will use the RTI6's all around with *'s for my mains. we share the same dvd player as well. Same sub too :D


    How do you like thoes RTi8's? Tight bass? and hows the highs?
  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited November 2005
    Josh,

    If you are going 1500 for speaks how many speakers we talking? What are they? What do you want to do with your system? Music or HT? Both? How much of each? What is your budget for your pre/pro/amp? What is the size of the room. Do you only want new or is quality used a consideration?

    The more info we get the better advice you get. But you definetly should forget about a new receiver priced at 250.00 if you are going for quality.

    RT1
  • BIZILL
    BIZILL Posts: 5,432
    edited November 2005
    Josh-S wrote:
    BIZILL,

    I noticed your setup in your sig. I actualy have that same setup planed except for the lesser model reciver 635, and I will use the RTI6's all around with *'s for my mains. we share the same dvd player as well. Same sub too :D


    How do you like thoes RTi8's? Tight bass? and hows the highs?

    everything sounds super-sweet in my setup. the rti 6's will do just fine in place of the rti8's. you might want to consider the fxi5's instead of rti6's. i was going to go that route, but for 7.1 surround, i wanted a bit deeper output. i crossover @ 40 hz. can't stop thinking..."what if?" about the fxi5's. but i like full-range or as close to it as i can in every speaker.

    POLK SDA-SRS 1.2TL -- ADCOM GFA-5802
    PANASONIC PT-AE4000U -- DIY WILSONART DW 135" 2.35:1 SCREEN
    ONKYO TX-SR805
    CENTER: CSI5
    MAINS: RTI8'S
    SURROUNDS: RTI8'S
    7.1 SURROUNDS: RTI6'S
    SUB: SVS PB12-PLUS/2 (12.3 series)

    XBOX 360
    WiiPS3/blu-rayTOSHIBA HD-A35 hd dvd

    http://polkarmy.com/forums/index.php
    bobman1235 wrote:
    I have no facts to back that up, but I never let facts get in the way of my arguments.
  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited November 2005
    Good but very tough question. Once you decide on speakers (and before purchasing them) start asking questions about what you need to power them with. It is hard to give a good percentage that works with all speakers.

    If you purchase a set of RTi4 or RTi6's for retail you will be able to get by with a much lower percentage of your budget spent on recievers than if you purchase a full LSi home theater used for $1500.

    Just pick a total HT budget (not how much you have now, but what is the max you plan to spend on your home theater) and factor in the cost of your speakers and electronics.

    With some efficient speakers you can get by spending more on a speaker and they sound fine with low or high power behind them.

    With other speakers (like the LSi line from Polk) the cost of the speaker is a smaller cost of your overall system since they require a higher caliber of amplificaiton and can amplify any shortcuts that you make elsewhere in the audio chain.

    Basically you can put together a home theater with similar speaker costs but dramatically different system costs based on how hard the speakers are to drive and how reveiling they are of the other components they are used with. (from source to cables to preamp to cables to amp to speaker wire to speaker)

    Who knows, that may be one of the reasons contributing to the great cable, amp, wire debate and if they make a difference or not. Its all about synergy - not one component working really well (like speakers) but an entire system working well together.

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
  • BIZILL
    BIZILL Posts: 5,432
    edited November 2005
    ...and with the lesser 635 vs. 7300, you'd power the rti6's or fxi5's better.

    POLK SDA-SRS 1.2TL -- ADCOM GFA-5802
    PANASONIC PT-AE4000U -- DIY WILSONART DW 135" 2.35:1 SCREEN
    ONKYO TX-SR805
    CENTER: CSI5
    MAINS: RTI8'S
    SURROUNDS: RTI8'S
    7.1 SURROUNDS: RTI6'S
    SUB: SVS PB12-PLUS/2 (12.3 series)

    XBOX 360
    WiiPS3/blu-rayTOSHIBA HD-A35 hd dvd

    http://polkarmy.com/forums/index.php
    bobman1235 wrote:
    I have no facts to back that up, but I never let facts get in the way of my arguments.
  • Josh-S
    Josh-S Posts: 160
    edited November 2005
    I ahvnt ever considered the fxi5's actualy... Just seams a bit werid all this bipolar and polar stuff...


    My budget has changed dramiticaly.

    HK AVR635 = 600
    RTi8's = 700
    RTi6's x @ pairs = 640
    SVS sub = 600

    $2,540 total I think I already talkeed about that in another one of my threads.. lol i got too many of them.
  • BIZILL
    BIZILL Posts: 5,432
    edited November 2005
    that's what i thought. but it only takes a day or two of research. look into it. plus they just look fuccin awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    POLK SDA-SRS 1.2TL -- ADCOM GFA-5802
    PANASONIC PT-AE4000U -- DIY WILSONART DW 135" 2.35:1 SCREEN
    ONKYO TX-SR805
    CENTER: CSI5
    MAINS: RTI8'S
    SURROUNDS: RTI8'S
    7.1 SURROUNDS: RTI6'S
    SUB: SVS PB12-PLUS/2 (12.3 series)

    XBOX 360
    WiiPS3/blu-rayTOSHIBA HD-A35 hd dvd

    http://polkarmy.com/forums/index.php
    bobman1235 wrote:
    I have no facts to back that up, but I never let facts get in the way of my arguments.
  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited November 2005
    Receiver quality is EXTREMELY important. You wouldn't put a bad heart in the body of an olympic athlete would you? The things I learned when I upgraded from my old ES (thanks to the guys here at Club Polk no less) is that can be a long, drawn out process but in the end it's worth it. It took me 1 whole month of asking around, a/b comparing, and researching both in stores and on the web before I made my decision.

    Do you like bright or warm sound?
    Are your speakers bright or warm by nature?
    If it can't do justice to music, then it's not worth your $.
    What connections do you NEED? (not "oh that looks cool, but i'll never use it.)
    Pre-Outs ARE A NECESSITY (well IMO... see above =)
    Adjustable bass management IS A NECESSITY.
    Whatever you do, don't limit yourself to bigbox stores.
    THX certified means ****.
    King George's Cathedral Dome w/Sci-Fi capability DSP means ****.
    Wattage specs mean ****.
    Weight, current capacity, and power supply mean everything.
    Price is not and should not be the determining factor when it comes to quality, BUT 1/3 the total cost of your speakers is a good minimum starting point.
    If they can't provide customer service, then they shouldn't get a customer.

    That may be somewhat of a know it all answer but I based it upon your original thread question. ANd there wasn't anything in there that I didn't learn from the guys here on the forums. :cool:
    H/K Signature 2.1+235
    Jungson MagicBoat II
    Revel Performa M-20
    Velodyne cht-10 sub
    Rega P1 Turntable

    "People working at Polk Audio must sit around the office and just laugh their balls off reading many of these comments." -Lush
  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited November 2005
    +1 aaharvel
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    In Use
    PS3, Yamaha CDR-HD1300, Plex, Amazon Fire TV Gen 2
    Pioneer Elite VSX-52, Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-82ii, RC-62ii, RS-42ii, RW-10d
    Epson 8700UB

    In Storage
    [Home Audio]
    Rotel RCD-02, Yamaha KX-W900U, Sony ST-S500ES, Denon DP-7F
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII, Parasound P/HP-850, ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Klipsch RF-35, RB-51ii

    [Car Audio]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP, Memphis 16-MCA3004, Boston Acoustic RC520
  • Josh-S
    Josh-S Posts: 160
    edited November 2005
    :confused:
    BIZILL wrote:
    that's what i thought. but it only takes a day or two of research. look into it. plus they just look fuccin awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    I only ever see them in 5.1. Do they ever work ing 7.1 setup? I wouldnt think so due to there dispersion paturn.
  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited November 2005
    Yeah, I've seen 'em in 7.1 set-ups.
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    In Use
    PS3, Yamaha CDR-HD1300, Plex, Amazon Fire TV Gen 2
    Pioneer Elite VSX-52, Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-82ii, RC-62ii, RS-42ii, RW-10d
    Epson 8700UB

    In Storage
    [Home Audio]
    Rotel RCD-02, Yamaha KX-W900U, Sony ST-S500ES, Denon DP-7F
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII, Parasound P/HP-850, ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Klipsch RF-35, RB-51ii

    [Car Audio]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP, Memphis 16-MCA3004, Boston Acoustic RC520
  • BIZILL
    BIZILL Posts: 5,432
    edited November 2005
    Josh-S wrote:
    :confused:


    I only ever see them in 5.1. Do they ever work ing 7.1 setup? I wouldnt think so due to there dispersion paturn.
    some would venture to say that bi/dipole speakers "make" a system. get rti 6's for the back and fxi5's for the side. hell, if you find a place to buy 'em with the ability to return them, i'd say what the heck, try fxi 5's for the side surrounds as well as the back surrounds. i didn't have that option, so i had to buy blindly. i honestly don't know if i would have been better served with fxi5's instead of my rti8's. all i know is that i am extremely happy.

    POLK SDA-SRS 1.2TL -- ADCOM GFA-5802
    PANASONIC PT-AE4000U -- DIY WILSONART DW 135" 2.35:1 SCREEN
    ONKYO TX-SR805
    CENTER: CSI5
    MAINS: RTI8'S
    SURROUNDS: RTI8'S
    7.1 SURROUNDS: RTI6'S
    SUB: SVS PB12-PLUS/2 (12.3 series)

    XBOX 360
    WiiPS3/blu-rayTOSHIBA HD-A35 hd dvd

    http://polkarmy.com/forums/index.php
    bobman1235 wrote:
    I have no facts to back that up, but I never let facts get in the way of my arguments.
  • marly421
    marly421 Posts: 73
    edited November 2005
    From: Josh-S

    I ahvnt ever considered the fxi5's actualy... Just seams a bit werid... reciver, determin, gona, should'nt, hapens when I tink too dep into, Do they ever work ing 7.1 setup?


    What on earth is this speak? Sorry but it's tiring to sort through this mess. This is a grammar school teacher's job, not mine, not ours. Responding to this written tripe is only encouraging the butchery of the English language and furthering the problems of understanding each other.
  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited November 2005
    2 pairs of f/x's set to bipole in a 7.1 setup is incredible. Seriously.

    For 5.1 i still recommend f/x's just in the dipole position and placed to the sides.

    I don't like monopole surrounds period due to localization, small soundfield & sweetspot and precedence effect. Jmo.
    H/K Signature 2.1+235
    Jungson MagicBoat II
    Revel Performa M-20
    Velodyne cht-10 sub
    Rega P1 Turntable

    "People working at Polk Audio must sit around the office and just laugh their balls off reading many of these comments." -Lush
  • BIZILL
    BIZILL Posts: 5,432
    edited November 2005
    marly421 wrote:
    From: Josh-S

    I ahvnt ever considered the fxi5's actualy... Just seams a bit werid... reciver, determin, gona, should'nt, hapens when I tink too dep into, Do they ever work ing 7.1 setup?


    What on earth is this speak? Sorry but it's tiring to sort through this mess. This is a grammar school teacher's job, not mine, not ours. Responding to this written tripe is only encouraging the butchery of the English language and furthering the problems of understanding each other.

    it is harder to get through it, but he's a guy who is into home theater. i say keep on postin', yo! :D

    POLK SDA-SRS 1.2TL -- ADCOM GFA-5802
    PANASONIC PT-AE4000U -- DIY WILSONART DW 135" 2.35:1 SCREEN
    ONKYO TX-SR805
    CENTER: CSI5
    MAINS: RTI8'S
    SURROUNDS: RTI8'S
    7.1 SURROUNDS: RTI6'S
    SUB: SVS PB12-PLUS/2 (12.3 series)

    XBOX 360
    WiiPS3/blu-rayTOSHIBA HD-A35 hd dvd

    http://polkarmy.com/forums/index.php
    bobman1235 wrote:
    I have no facts to back that up, but I never let facts get in the way of my arguments.
  • Josh-S
    Josh-S Posts: 160
    edited November 2005
    :eek:

    Where can I buy a used Harman Kardon AVR 7300 ? for say 600 - 700 :confused:
  • lanion
    lanion Posts: 843
    edited November 2005
    My Iron Man training/charity blog.

    HT:
    32" Sharp LCD. H/K dpr 1001 to Outlaw Audio 7900 to Polk LSi + Paradigm Studio center. Hsu DualDrive ULS-15. PS3/Wii. Outlaw 7900.
  • BIZILL
    BIZILL Posts: 5,432
    edited November 2005
    Josh-S wrote:
    :eek:

    Where can I buy a used Harman Kardon AVR 7300 ? for say 600 - 700 :confused:
    eh, it ain't gonna happen. maybe your local classified ads. even ebay you'd be hard-pressed to find one that cheap. perhaps a 635 for that price. ebay.

    POLK SDA-SRS 1.2TL -- ADCOM GFA-5802
    PANASONIC PT-AE4000U -- DIY WILSONART DW 135" 2.35:1 SCREEN
    ONKYO TX-SR805
    CENTER: CSI5
    MAINS: RTI8'S
    SURROUNDS: RTI8'S
    7.1 SURROUNDS: RTI6'S
    SUB: SVS PB12-PLUS/2 (12.3 series)

    XBOX 360
    WiiPS3/blu-rayTOSHIBA HD-A35 hd dvd

    http://polkarmy.com/forums/index.php
    bobman1235 wrote:
    I have no facts to back that up, but I never let facts get in the way of my arguments.
  • BIZILL
    BIZILL Posts: 5,432
    edited November 2005

    POLK SDA-SRS 1.2TL -- ADCOM GFA-5802
    PANASONIC PT-AE4000U -- DIY WILSONART DW 135" 2.35:1 SCREEN
    ONKYO TX-SR805
    CENTER: CSI5
    MAINS: RTI8'S
    SURROUNDS: RTI8'S
    7.1 SURROUNDS: RTI6'S
    SUB: SVS PB12-PLUS/2 (12.3 series)

    XBOX 360
    WiiPS3/blu-rayTOSHIBA HD-A35 hd dvd

    http://polkarmy.com/forums/index.php
    bobman1235 wrote:
    I have no facts to back that up, but I never let facts get in the way of my arguments.
  • Josh-S
    Josh-S Posts: 160
    edited November 2005
    yea, I got ebay covered. ;) Is there other sale sites? whats that ione argon? some thing like that... :o

    Edit: oh, remember that thread of mine where I asked about a CSi3... it went for $70 more then retail :confused: Ebay doesnt seam to be a good place to buy speakers and such...
  • okiepolkie
    okiepolkie Posts: 2,258
    edited November 2005
    audiogon

    craigslist
    Tschüss
    Zach