Well, it was for the best.

hellohello · November 2005

I ended up selling the mmc6500's to a neighbor, Im just waaay too lazy and poor to upgrade my system to support those beasts... On sunday I helped him install the passenger side in his Accord, bit of a PITA, but it worked out ok. He had stock tweeters in the dash, so we took out the grille, and the tweeter was attached to it... he wanted to save the grille, so we "modified" (read creative cutting) the momo tweeter so we could mount it to the grille. It fires straight up toward the windshield, but it sounds good. The midrange was easier to phyically install, but the wiring was a pain. The doors wires arent fished straight through a hole in the door, theres a plastic connector which joins from the outside... and the wires inside the car were tight to the firewall so we couldnt access them without tearing out the carpet and various other parts. We did the next best thing, ran a wire inside the rubber boot thing from the door jamb, and then right where it hits the connector, we "added" a hole for the wire to come through. Its still covered by the rubber protector, so its all good.

Then we ran wires to the trunk where the amplifier is, rockford 4 channel, and put the crossovers there. Those things are tricky to hook up, the wires go through the top, then u have to finangle them under the screws... but it worked. after all that was done, we fired it up, just the one side, and it was like night and day. I made my first conversion

. now i have to find some 6x9's for the rear. He has some pioneers back there, and they suck **** compared to the momos :rolleyes:

hellohello · November 2005

oh, and since im thinking of it, when we installed the amp, we ran the signal on the passenger side and the power on the driver side, so when we do the driver side door, would it be best to run the wire down the passenger side and then under the dashboard to the drivers side, or would it be better to run it on the drivers side? I ask this seemingly stupid question because i wonder if having the wire running long from the passenger side would make it susceptible to interference, moreso than if it ran shorter but closer to the powerline.

neomagus00 · November 2005

speaker wire next to power wire is no biggie, interconnects next to power wire is questionable...

hellohello · November 2005

so as long as the ends or any breaks of the wire stay away from the power itll be cool?

PoweredByDodge · November 2005

its a matter of voltage... low voltage (read as 2 to 5 volts) rca's next to power cable is baaaad.

high voltage (read as near 20 volt) speaker lines next to RCA's is not anything to really sweat over.

however... i have many times run RCA's right up along side, even taped to, power lines. i don't buy **** RCA's though.

hellohello · November 2005

um.. i have the rcas already run, im wondrin about the speaker cables that go from amp to speaker... or should i say crossover to speaker

hellohello · November 2005

well, on a side note, im wondering if the db690's would mesh with the mmc6500s... any ideas?

PoweredByDodge · November 2005

the db's will be fine with the momo's. they're rear fill - not integrated into the front stage.

speaker wire next to power wire = fine. speaker wire next to rca's = i have no opinion as of this time.

PoweredByDodge · November 2005

... and say hello to my little friend... a 70 piece crossover network... dun dun dun... 4th order butterworth configuration all the way around. high pass and low pass on midranges, high pass and low pass on upper mids, and high pass on tweet-il-e-dees... costing me about 60 bucks in parts, plus a couple of boards to build it on, but i'm hoping it'll come out sweet. ah digikey.com, how i love thee.

Jstas · November 2005

Uhhhh....is there supposed to be a picture of this crossover hodge podge in that post?

Jstas · November 2005

Oh, BTW Vinnie, you'd better start posting more. As of this post, I'm only 65 posts behind you and catching up fast.

Yes, I will achieve supreme loser status!

MacLeod · November 2005

Jstas wrote:

Yes, I will achieve supreme loser status!

Not as long as Im around!

hmmm...maybe that should be a

neomagus00 · November 2005

you are STILL the only polk master around...

exalted512 · November 2005

id be a polk master if i hadnt changed s/n's

-Cody

hellohello · November 2005

pbd, u truly are a mad scientist, and i wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
ok, we have the fronts all installed now, we ran the speaker line "near" the power, and its fine.

The odd thing is, the midbass seems to be lacking a bit, the speakers are the right polarity I THINK, im probably going to double check that, but it was late when we finished and thats a "tomorrow" thing.
Now, from what i remember reading here, reversing the polarity on the tweeters makes them fire a split second late helping them blend better in some situations... im eager to give that a try. (I may have sold the speakers, but now i get to play with them and my car isnt torn asunder

)
Now, with the gains not fully set to optimum, the pioneers seem to distort like there is no tomorrow, which i think may be due to their installation, you see the idea is stealth, and he wanted to keep the factory grille, but to make it fit over the monstrous pioneer superdupertweeters, he had to put a spacer between the grille and the speaker, and i think the flimsy grille is smaking the hell out of the speaker when it plays...
keeping in mind that the grille MOST DEFINITELY will stay factory, any way to stiffen the grille or reduce the slap? i was thinking of chopping up an old mousepad and gluing it to the speaker, but i dont think that would fly, although the car itself does not fly... sorry random thought.
Oh, and since im rambling along as it is, is it possible to bi-amp the crossover and then use the woofer out for both the momos and the pioneers, effectively eliminating their superdupertweeters?

neomagus00 · November 2005

hum... i'll answer what i can recognise as a question

... if you're playing with polarity, i suppose you could try mixing and matching... you'd probably be better off just leaving the mids in phase, and trying the right tweeter both in and out of phase... as far as the midbass goes, give it some break-in time... if there's a spacer between the grille and speaker, i'm pretty sure the speaker won't be hitting the grille... gluing anything to a speaker is a bad call...

PoweredByDodge · November 2005

and - huzzat! - see attached picture thingy...

70 pieces is going to be a bit annoying soldering, but we'll see how it comes out - of course after all of this i'll have to tune it with the subwoofers shut off, and then gradually integrate the subs back in, probably change the crossovers on the subs once i am happy with the front.

hellohello · November 2005

well, neo, id agree with you if the speaker grille werent resting on the plastic of the tweeter. Its easily seen that the grilles undulate wildly once the speakers are turned on.

neomagus00 · November 2005

it's very strange that the grille moves, because the tweeter most certainly should not move relative to the speaker basket, and if the grille isn't touching the cone of the speaker - and is still shaking - something is going very wrong...

pbd - cool design... why 4th-order on the mid? does it end up blending better with the tweet that way?

hellohello · November 2005

well, im talking about the stock Honda grille. its a thin piece of plastic chicken wire with cloth stretched over it. The air moved by the largest cone moves that thing like a sail flapping in the wind. Im thinking of putting two beams of wood underneath the grille and attaching it to the plastic somehow. As of right now, it has no structure whatsoever.

neomagus00 · November 2005

ah, i see... so it's not the grille itself that's the problem, it's the cloth? or is it that the grille not screwed down tightly enough? a spacer ring might be a solution...

hellohello · November 2005

well, the cloth catches the air moved by the speaker, but it takes the plastic form with it up and down smacking the huge tweeter pod. At least, thats my theory based on the sound its making. Most likely the speaker can be mounted underneath the deck with a spacer holding it even lower. Right now its top mounted, if thats the term for dropping it in the factory hole lol. I may convince him to replace the pioneers, but what brand would both complement the mmc6500s and not have a gigantic tweeter pod? The db's & momo's look like they protrude quite a bit.

hellohello · November 2005

well, after a careful investigative event, it was discovered that the ENTIRE back dash cover moves, including the third brakelight. dynamat, and more dynamat lol

audiobliss · November 2005

Man. You're really pumping the volume if two 6x9's are moving the entire back dash.

PoweredByDodge · November 2005

neomagus00 wrote:

it's very strange that the grille moves, because the tweeter most certainly should not move relative to the speaker basket, and if the grille isn't touching the cone of the speaker - and is still shaking - something is going very wrong...

pbd - cool design... why 4th-order on the mid? does it end up blending better with the tweet that way?

--- actually i have no frickin clue.

i'm just going to try it out

if it sucks, i'll change it accordingly. But I'm tired of having to deal with too shallow of slopes --- right now i have my mid frequency set at 1.5 khz with a 7 db drop at the head unit to account for the fact that the slopes of the mid-bass and 'mid-tweet' are not steep enough, and thus they're overlapping so much it changes the true tone of hte music drastically.

well dropping it 7 db's at 1.5 helps about 90% but the negative result is that i'm losing other music information. i figure two "brick walls" at 24 db/octave should do it... we shall see. i want to be able to play this stuff louder. spl in the cabin is nothing to write home about - sounds fantastic, but not nearly as loud as i wnat it - although everybody else seems to think its "deafening".

hellohello · November 2005

well, yeah, i keep telling him to turn the gains down, cause the tweeters are garbled, but all i get is "nah, nah, they can handle it" :rolleyes: at least the momos sound good, and you only hear the 6x9's if ur in the backseat. I told him to look into the tang band 6x9 subwoofers, save the tweeters.

hellohello · November 2005

oh, and like i said before, its the whole dash moving, so would it be better to somehow make it stiffer so it doesnt flex, or to just attach some foam or mat to it to stop the slapping sound?

neomagus00 · November 2005

perhaps strapping it down in some way?

hellohello · November 2005

i dont frickin know.. he doesnt give me a ride everyday, the sound wont bother me... lol hell with it

Well, it was for the best.

Comments