Mile High City, what a great city

hoosier21

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051102/ap_on_el_st_lo/denver_marijuana

It's ok to carry around up to an ounce!

Demiurge

Must be that mountain air....

shack

Just means the CITY of Denver won't prosecute/arrest for posession. State and Federal laws still apply.

hoosier21

shack wrote:

Just means the CITY of Denver won't prosecute/arrest for posession. State and Federal laws still apply.

Read that, not sure what they passed. Local cop will give you a pass, but a state tropper or fed agent will charge you??

shack

hoosier21 wrote:

Read that, not sure what they passed. Local cop will give you a pass, but a state tropper or fed agent will charge you??

Not even that....

A "yes" vote probably won't make much difference. The city attorney's office said Denver police will simply file marijuana possession charges under state law, which carries up to a $100 fine and a mandatory $100 drug-offender surcharge.

"The initiative isn't going to change the way we do business," said Vince DeCroce, director of prosecution for the attorney's office.

Must be one of those "feel good" referendums by the mile HIGH voters.

Demiurge

Having spent a lot of time up in Madison here, you can pretty much walk around smoking a J and the cops don't do anything to you. There is no federal enforcement of it up there, not that I've seen, or at least not enough to be a deterrent.

This is pretty much free reign for people to smoke recreationally with minimal consequence. Oh well.

ND13

edit

Mazeroth

It's official...I'm moving to Denver!

pmckeealaska

All true conservatives should support laws like this if they truly believe in keeping the government out of peoples personal lives. Just my 2 cents.

ND13

edit.

Demiurge

pmckeealaska wrote:

All true conservatives should support laws like this if they truly believe in keeping the government out of peoples personal lives. Just my 2 cents.

That's a little absurd, don't you think? That tends to be the Libertarian point of view, not the Conservative. So no, it's not VERY TRUE, nor has that ever been a tenant of Conservatism. It would almost be representitive of Anarchy, free reign on anything and no government intervention, which is not a Conservative tenant.

It's like saying that people should be able to shoot heroin because the government has not right to intervene. How about rape and murder? We have laws in this country to protect the general good of the public from one another, not from yourself. That's how I see it, I don't think governments role is to protect you from yourself, but moreso to protect others from you, and that should only go so far. I'm saying that despite the fact we have laws that do. It's called being reasonable.

Smoking the evil weed is dangerous to those around you. I personally don't care if you want to do it at home, but I also think you should pay the price if you get busted for doing it, especially so if you go out and kill someone behind the wheel of your car. It may or may not be different than alcohol, but that is up for debate, and there are drinking laws for a reason.

Just like smoking. Government wants to come in and tell me I can't allow smoking in my bar. The general public doesn't want this, and my business dries up. This is an instance of Government run amok, they don't have the right to legistlate laws about what I can do in my home or business with a legal product.

If you want to legislate on Tobacco or Alcohol, make it illegal. The dirty secret is that it won't happen. They make too much money on the taxes from both products. The majority of this country doesn't want marijuana legalized, if they did, it would be. Plus, if it was, it would be only if the government could find away to regulate and tax it, which they can't.

So until then keep smoking your pot at home and be safe about it if that's the choice you make. I don't think we're going to see Marijunaboro in this country anytime soon.

pmckeealaska

I see your point Demiurge, but if I choose to smoke weed or shoot heroin in my own home, then I should be allowed to do so. I agree, you should not be driving your car around on the stuff, but the government should keeps its fat nose out of my house. If the only person I'm hurting, is myself, then it should be my business. I'm not sure I agree with you that most americans would not want pot legalized. Up here in Alaska, we have had several votes to legalize it, and it has been very close to 50/50. Case law up here still makes it legal to possess up to 1/4 lb. for personal use in your own home, which I fully support. Sad to say, but most Americans are very ignorant about the subject and have been lied to about the harmfulness of this drug. I mean, come on, I just read that 25% of americans believe that the sun revolves around the earth! This level of ignorance is staggering to me. Same thing with this whole evolution/ intelligent design thing. Many americans think that there is large disagreement over evolution among scientist, when the opposite is true. Some people just choose to live in ignorance I guess. Finally, just because a majority of people feel a certain way, does not make it fact and does not make it right. The idea that we live in a free society is not entirely true. I especially hate it when I here people say that our brave troops are "fighting for our freeoms". That really burns me, since only about 5% of americans can even name 3 or more of the bill of rights amendments.

Again Demiurge, I think your points are well taken and thought out, I just think we might disagree on the fine points. I think you would agree with me though, that we are by and large, a pretty ignorant country compared to others.

Demiurge

See, I really hold no judgement of you if that's what you choose to do. I don't agree with it and I have judgements on your actions, but it's your choice and it's effect of it is pretty much held only to you. That's not to say you care of the opinions of others on this matter, but it's how I feel. I do care when these things affect others, be it children, other adults, or the elderly. Seems like you're on the same plane there.

I also wouldn't agree this country is any more ignorant than any other. Then again, I'm more concerned with the foundation of this country.

The Marijuana debate is out there, and there are varying degrees of opinions on the harmful affects of it. I've watched it destroy the life of my ex-girlfriend as a thread on this very forum would indicate, but that was her choice. In the end she's responsible for her actions, I just don't see the benefit of the legalization of the drug, and those who say it isn't addictive are silly. While I'm sure it varies person by person, I've seen the affects of it first hand.

That said, I've smoked marijuna before on more than one occasion when I was younger, didn't see the point in it, and stopped.

Like I said, if there was a way for the government to make money on it and the majority of the country was for it, I think we'd see it. I just don't see that ever happening. Are we talking about legalizing marijuana in Alaska or allowing it for medicinal purposes? The context and details of the measure are important, unless of course it was indeed a carte blanche legalization of marijuana.

shack

Here is that fine line between your rights and my rights and the rights of society. Sure IF it's ok to shoot heroin in your own home that may only be hurting the user, until the addiction becomes so great they can't hold a job, resort to whatever means to "feed" the habit, deteriorate healthwise even to the point of needing emergency help, etc...etc...etc....All of which is ultimately borne by the citizens who pay taxes, charitable organizations, workers who pay insurance premiums, (health, homowners, etc..) and on and on.

The "I should be able to do whatever I want as long as it doesn't affect anyone else" would be an acceptable concept if it could actually be implemented. But if you are a member of society...any society...EVERYTHING you do will have an impact on that society. Whether imperceptively small or glaringly huge...it will impact that society. So the society as a whole must decide what it will or will not accept. I contend that there is no such thing as absolute isolationism where your actions have no impact on the rest of the world. If you live by yourself on an island in the middle of the ocean, and you eat a fish, build a fire or piss in the ocean...you have affected the environment of others...even though it may be minute.

The rights of the indivdual and the rights of the whole are not absoulute. It is a delicate dance which is changing constantly. We do it better here in the US than anywhere else in the wourld IMO.

Demiurge

Well said.

pmckeealaska

good point shack. I guess I would wonder why alcohol is legal in this country. I mean, I guess its OK for society to carry the burden of the problems that booze carries since most want it legal??

As far as Alaska is concerned. We have a medical marijuana law on the books, and it is "decriminalized", which is short of being legal in the strictest since, but again, personal use in the home is fine. I would be willing to bet the the cost to society is less than that incurred due to booze, but thats just my own opinion and I have no hard facts to support it.

In terms of addiction, though pot is NOT physically addictive, it is psychologicaly addictive for some, but it does not have the same physical effects that booze, nicotine, or other physically addictive substances do. I'm just putting that out there, not trying to say that makes it OK.....

As an aside, the government could make a ton of money by legalizing pot and taxing the hell out of it. It would also pretty much eliminate all dealers and pot associated crime....

markmarc

Find it interesting nobody mentions the cost in terms of lower worker productivity. or, more important, the effect on children both in the womb and growing up. I've seen enough cases as a teacher of the children suffering both emotionally and physically (learning disabilities), that I no longer view marijuana as a victemless crime.

I do support medical marijuana, because of its proven effects for chemo patients, etc..

bobman1235

markmarc wrote:

Find it interesting nobody mentions the cost in terms of lower worker productivity. or, more important, the effect on children both in the womb and growing up. I've seen enough cases as a teacher of the children suffering both emotionally and physically (learning disabilities), that I no longer view marijuana as a victemless crime.

It's a victimless crime when used in a victimless setting. Smoking cigarettes or drinking with a child in the womb or in the house harms the child - those are legal drugs. Drinking on teh job is generally frowned upon, and you'll get fired if you do it in most cases - why can't the same be said for a legal marijuana? Drunk driving has had huge legislation changes in the past years to make it very illegal - again, why not the same laws for marijuana, if it were made legal? Any and all places where a drug can have a negative effect on ANYONE but the USER of the drug should be legislated. Any and all places where a drug only affects the USER of teh drug should NOT. If you believe marijuana should be illegal, then you should believe in alcohol prohibition. They're very nearly the same thing in almost every respect, except pot causees cancer and drinking causes l iver damage.

EDIT : Just read shack's post, which I had missed, and he's rright - obviously things like heroin should remain illegal becuase they so obviously relate to other crime. Marijuana is not any more addictive than other drugs (most would say less so than cigarettes OR alcohol) so I don't see how this argument would apply to it.

Shizelbs

Posting on web forums lowers worker productivity as well.

ND13

Edited due to people misunderstanding my viewpoint on the subject.

shack

ND13 wrote:

It's funny that our society can't folow the lead of nations such as Holland and see how they have been successful with their drug laws. They have virtually zero violent crime that can be attributed to drugs. They have a much lower addiction rate.

When Philips moved their US Consumer Electronics division to Knoxville back in the late 80s and early 90s many of the Execs from the Netherlands were clients of mine. Even though Philips Consumer Electronics has moved the bulk of the staff elsewhere I still stay in contact with several of them. Most of them have painted a much different picture of the drug issue. From a business standpoint it is a total disaster as worker productivity in The Netherlands is abismal. The tax sturcture is very oppresive and the cost of the "drug culture" on the government is significant. 75-80% of the people I've dealt with have stayed in the US when it came time to retire. Of course these are very sucessful, goal oriented, driven professionals who have little tollerance for the drug culture of The Netherlands. While they would be considered liberals in our culture...they are somewhat conservative in theirs. Just a different perspective.

bknauss

There's also the woman in Denver selling her house and herself with the house. Definite MILF too.

ND13

edit

dragon1952

EDITED TO PROTECT THE INNOCENT.....ALL NAMES AND REFERENCES TO REAL PEOPLE IN THIS POST WERE PURELY COINCEDENTAL :cool:

ND13

edit

ND13

edit

petrym

98,000 voters out of a population of 3.4 million eligible voters (4.6 million pop - 25% under 18 years old) = 2.8% turnout... yeah, they're all stoned already.

shack

petrym wrote:

yeah, they're all stoned already.

Nah...just apathetic .

george daniel

ND13 wrote:

Remember now ^^^^^^^

The summer birds,with wings of fire flaying, come to witness springs new hope, born of leaves decaying,,,,,,,lovely to see you again, my friend,, walk along with me to the next bend,,,,,, Now hear this; the smoking lamp is lit

reeltrouble1

It is foolish to smoke, it does nothing for you. In the end it is harmful.

Denver also just happens to be one of the top cities for alcohol abuse.

dragon1952

reeltrouble1 wrote:

It is foolish to smoke, it does nothing for you. In the end it is harmful.

Denver also just happens to be one of the top cities for alcohol abuse.

Smog too