tube amp to drive sda-1c

OldSycamoreTree
OldSycamoreTree Posts: 70
edited November 2005 in 2 Channel Audio
Just added a VTL TL-5.5 preamp into my system with one of my goals being to "soften" an overly bright power amplifier (a carver pro zr1000 digital ...aka bel canto). It did not work. System still grating on the ears.

open to ideas on a tube amp under $1500 that would mate well with the sda's.

Very disheartening to buy such a good preamp and have a system still sound like crap due to a poor power amp. ugh. I am sure the VTL is NOT to blame as it gets good reviews and the carver was bright before the VTL was bought in.

Seriously thinking of putting it in the closet and running my ol trusty Luxman r-115 that sounds better than this power amp.
Post edited by OldSycamoreTree on
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  • PolknPepsi
    PolknPepsi Posts: 781
    edited October 2005
    I have been thinking about www.juicymusicaudio.com for a preamp but there are many others out there & a lot of guys around here like......www.doddaudio.com

    Good luck on the search.
    Denon #2900, Denon stereo receiver, Conrad Johnson Sonographe 120 amp, Blue Jeans cables, and Klipsch RF-7's
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited October 2005
    Just out of curiousity, why do you want to stick with the bright amp? I mean, if you have a good pre, and you know the problem is the amp, why not get another amp?
    George Grand wrote: »
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    edited October 2005
    Upgrade the tweeters. The silk replacement may save you other equipment changes.
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
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  • beardog03
    beardog03 Posts: 5,550
    edited October 2005
    Dennis Gardner wrote:
    Upgrade the tweeters. The silk replacement may save you other equipment changes.


    I agree with DG..

    start with the tweets, then maybe upgrade the cross-overs, then see how it sounds before changing out more gear..
    Cary SLP-98L F1 DC Pre Amp (Jag Blue)
    Parasound HCA-3500
    Cary Audio V12 amp (Jag Red)
    Polk Audio Xm Reciever (Autographed by THE MAN Himself) :cool:
    Magnum Dynalab MD-102 Analog Tuna
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    Polk Audio LSi9 Speaks (ebony)
    SVS PC-Ultra Sub
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    AQ Black Thunder Sub Cables
    PS Audio Plus Power Cords
    Magnum Dynalab ST-2 FM Antenna
    Sanus Cherry wood Speak Stands
    Adona AV45CS3 / 3 Tier Rack (Black /Gold)

    :cool:
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    edited October 2005
    Why run pro gear for full range, when so many other options exist that give a more refined sound? I don't mind the pro stuff for a sub amp, but like more noticeable build quality and attention to detail in my full range amps.
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
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  • mesquitehead
    mesquitehead Posts: 312
    edited October 2005
    I am expecting a new Jolida 1501 hybrid this week to push my sda1c's...I will post a review as soon as I get her burned in.
    "Thats great... but how does it sound"
    http://www.burginmcdaniel.com/

    http://mixonline.com/gear/reviews/audio_burgin_mcdaniel_komit/

    Yamaha RX-A820 (networked with wireless bridge), Carver M-1.0t, Carver TFM-35, Carver C-1, Polk SDA1c's (x2 pair), Polk RTA 8tl's, Polk RTA 11tl's, Polk Monitor 5, Polk CS 400, Polk PSW 650, Rega Planar 3, Sony DVPNC555ES SACD/DVD, Panny 65" Plasma, Roku

    2007 Tundra 5.7 TRD DC
    Pioneer DEH-80PRS
    Polk SR6500
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    Zed Gladius
    Zed Deuce
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  • W WALDECKER
    W WALDECKER Posts: 900
    edited October 2005
    OldSycamoreTree wrote:
    Just added a VTL TL-5.5 preamp into my system with one of my goals being to "soften" an overly bright power amplifier (a carver pro zr1000 digital ...aka bel canto). It did not work. System still grating on the ears.

    open to ideas on a tube amp under $1500 that would mate well with the sda's.

    Very disheartening to buy such a good preamp and have a system still sound like crap due to a poor power amp. ugh. I am sure the VTL is NOT to blame as it gets good reviews and the carver was bright before the VTL was bought in.

    Seriously thinking of putting it in the closet and running my ol trusty Luxman r-115 that sounds better than this power amp.
    upscale audio has a pair of Manley labs 50 watt monoblocks used for $1399 for the pair.they make very good tube gear.thanks....WCW III
    Rogue Audio stereo 100 tube amplifier - Lector Zoe preamplifier with 6H30 pi's
    .Audience AU24SE speaker and ic cables- Chord Qutest DAC - Black Cat Silverstar II 75ohm digital cable-Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature system with large bass cabinets to accommodate 10" Seas magnesium woofers.2xhmpsuownoj.jpg
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,551
    edited October 2005
    Nice pre amp!

    I'm sure you're right about the pro amp causing the unpleasantness. I may have a lead for you on a pair of Manley 100 mono blocks in your price range, I'll let you know. BTW, what are you using as a source?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,551
    edited October 2005
    Oh yeah, some of you guys need to READ the original post. He likes the new pre amp and wants to get RID of the pro amp!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited October 2005
    Oops. My bad. I totally thought he was looking for a new preamp. Hope you find an amp that'll work out nicely for ya!
    George Grand wrote: »
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    In Use
    PS3, Yamaha CDR-HD1300, Plex, Amazon Fire TV Gen 2
    Pioneer Elite VSX-52, Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-82ii, RC-62ii, RS-42ii, RW-10d
    Epson 8700UB
    In Storage
    [Home Audio]
    Rotel RCD-02, Yamaha KX-W900U, Sony ST-S500ES, Denon DP-7F
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII, Parasound P/HP-850, ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Klipsch RF-35, RB-51ii
    [Car Audio]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP, Memphis 16-MCA3004, Boston Acoustic RC520
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  • Roy Munson
    Roy Munson Posts: 886
    edited October 2005
    beardog03 wrote:
    I agree with DG..

    start with the tweets, then maybe upgrade the cross-overs, then see how it sounds before changing out more gear..

    I agree that you might want to try the silk replacement tweeters because the SL 2000's have a nasty spike! The replacements really smooth out the highs on SDA's!!!
    2 Channel:
    Amp/Parasound Halo A23
    Pre/Carver C-1
    Tuner/Carver TX-11a
    CDP/Jolida JD 100A
    Turntable/AR XB-Shure V15 III
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  • 00p225
    00p225 Posts: 100
    edited October 2005
    Before you look for a tube amp to replace your carver, you may want to consider a source change or tube dac. I was running my sda1-c's with a homebrew tube preamp into a soundcraftsmen PM-840 solid state mosfet amp. Yes the highs were bright using a digital source. I tried the Scott Nixon tube dac, and the highs were phenominal. Still that spike from the original tweeters was there, but no more fatigue or glair. For the record, I'm now using a 35wpc Eico HF-87 tube amp, and did the swenson mod on my toshiba 3950. The highs are nearly as smooth as the tube dac. Just getting the hash etc filtered out really helped alot.
    Main System
    Pre - Homebrew 12au7 tube preamp
    Amp - Eico HF-87 with EHEL34's
    Source - Modded Toshiba 3950
    Interconnects - DIY Belden
    Speakers - Polk SDA-1C

    Basement System
    Pre - McIntosh C-28
    Amp - McIntosh MC2100
    Source - Modded Toshiba 3960
    Tape - Pioneer RT-707
    Turntable - Thorens TD150MKII with Denon DL-160
    Speakers - Pioneer HPM-100
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  • PolknPepsi
    PolknPepsi Posts: 781
    edited October 2005
    OldSycamoreTree wrote:
    open to ideas on a tube amp under $1500 that would mate well with the sda's.
    My Bad! He is looking for a tube amp..... If you are interested in used check out www.audiogon.com
    Denon #2900, Denon stereo receiver, Conrad Johnson Sonographe 120 amp, Blue Jeans cables, and Klipsch RF-7's
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,551
    edited October 2005
    OldSycamoreTree,

    It's my understanding that a PM has been sent to you. Those are great amps, I almost pulled the trigger on them myself.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • OldSycamoreTree
    OldSycamoreTree Posts: 70
    edited November 2005
    from the polk automailer saying I even had replies to my original post. :confused:

    I would have corresponded with the thread earlier than today.
    Don't think I can go mono amps with sda 1c and its standard umbilical cord.

    My sound has improved with tube rolling , philips miniwatts for the 12at7 and amperex organ tubes for the 12 ax7.

    Still, at a normal listening levels the treble seems too strong in proportion to the bass. (I have alreay installed the silk tweeters)
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited November 2005
    IMHO, look for a used Conrad Johnson MV-60. GREAT amp in or around your price range. However, as has been stated, first swap out the tweeters. I wouldn't discount a GOOD solid state amp, either.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited November 2005
    The silk are nice but they are not going to make such a quantum leap for the SDA to "fix" an amp problem. They are for refining a tweeter problem with an already good system to make it better on the top end, at that the top of the top end. Once you use the silks and decide you like them, it is hard to go back to the silver dome. However some folks here like the silver dome. FWIW Matt Polk did say that the 2000 was not his favorite tweeter.

    I am quite sure the silks mated with the VTL and say the Manley, Dodd, CJ, or other such quality tube amp would set just about anyone with a serious interest in audio on their way to nirvana. Just consider all the details as tube amps require a bit more care than the tube pre's.

    You can also have great success with ss amps and tube pre combinations which there are so many posts on this I will not repeat the fine results.

    Whichever way you go enjoy your gear. With your budget should be a great system.

    RT1
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  • OldSycamoreTree
    OldSycamoreTree Posts: 70
    edited November 2005
    or similar title and got some good ideas from there and audio asylum.
    just so many choices it "boggles the mind" as an old Phili talk show guy used to say.

    ss I was thinking of preowned odyssey extreme, parasound, maybe a carver .t amp or cj 2500 / sonographe. nakamichi pa7 stasis or aleph 30 are supposed to sound great (nelson pass designs)
    anyone heard the 30 watt aleph with an sda model?

    tubes- considering prowned the cj mv60se , aronov, cary sla70b
    these are all 60 watt push pulls.
    The cary is the easiest on the budget which always helps- as tube rolling in the pre is costing more than I thought (the preowned vtl I bought had sovtek 12ax7 and no-name odd 12at7s with a symbol of an atom on them? these tubes sounded very thin lifeless compared to the ones I am running now)

    a new tube amp possibility is the mcalister that many here are speaking of.

    cd source is cal cl-20 that also reads dvd-audio.


    fwiw my current amp the carver pro zr1000 is a modded one and seems well- done my the tweaker who did it. For the technically savy here is what he related to me as his mods "replaced the 5V regulator with a quieter one, and the main rectifier bridge with a FRED bridge. Carver uses a Trypath chip (the same kind used by BelCanto). It's an excellent chip, but in this stock amp it is masked by a bunch of gain and equalizing stages not needed in an audiophile system. So following the Trypath application notes and Carver schematics, I removed all this extra processing out of the signal path for considerable more transparency, dynamics, and smoothness. I set the gain to 26dB and input impedance to 20K (both settings pretty standard for a power amp). Since I was working on the amp I also decided to upgrade some parts in the power supply and add some extra filtering (for less noise induced by the PS)."


    These digital amps get some praise, especially the belcanto evo, so I figurered this modified carver pro would be a close contender. It just seems to have something going on in the treble I cant put my finger on.
    Maybe it is TOO revealing of an amp. It is very dynamic. I have just gotten an improvement to the amps bass with power cord upgrade.
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  • OldSycamoreTree
    OldSycamoreTree Posts: 70
    edited November 2005
    increased the budget and put on the credit card an order for the mono extremes from klaus. I think from what i've read on them they best suit my varied music tastes.
    The Mcalister tube amp is likley great also. Hard decision choosing an amp without hearing it, but Klaus has 30 day return policy and he says 95 percent of mono extremes are still with original owners.
    Will stick to tube tweaking in just the preamp.
    Lets hope Klaus can be as reliable as Santa and deliver my goodies by Christmas. :)
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited November 2005
    Congrats!!!
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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