LSi15 vs LSi9 + PSW1000

audiobliss

...well, there goes tonights entertainment, then....what were ya thinking?!...

knownalien_

The outlaws came!

and they bring me new life!!!

Frank Z

knownalien_ wrote:

The outlaws came!

and they brought me a new wife!!!

Fixed it for ya!

Congrats on the upgrade. You owe us a full review.

knownalien_

I can start now. The 15's sound like the LSi25's did in the store. That's at high sound levels, obviously, but damn! I took a peek at the woofer while it was running and the watts make it react so fast that it seems to recover very fast so that you don't get that flutter when they extend to far out. At 4 ohms, I am driving 300 watts into each! And also, these outlaws do look nice. I wil post a pic in a minute.

Frank Z

knownalien_ wrote:

I wil post a pic in a minute.

Of the new wife?!? :eek:

knownalien_

she's not a new wife.

knownalien_

the speakers look like the Shroud or Turin.

yes, that's whiskey and coke in front of the TV.

audiobliss

Nice equipment rack!

And congrats on making your system better!

polkatese

good thing I am on DSL Nice system! I do think your center channel need to go above the TV - but that just me...

cfrizz

Congrats! I knew you would like them!!!

McLoki

Unless you are lying on the floor while watching TV, you should angle your center channel at your listening position. For temp you could just put a rolled up towel or rubber door stop (the kind that look like a short rubber wedge) under the front of the speaker till it is aimed at your ears in your main listening position.

looks great though. congrats.

Michael

knownalien_

polkatese wrote:

good thing I am on DSL Nice system! I do think your center channel need to go above the TV - but that just me...

you can see, there is no where else to put it. Even the TV cannot move back far enough to allow the center to sit in front of it, not without blocking the infared sensor.

knownalien_

McLoki wrote:

Unless you are lying on the floor while watching TV, you should angle your center channel at your listening position. For temp you could just put a rolled up towel or rubber door stop (the kind that look like a short rubber wedge) under the front of the speaker till it is aimed at your ears in your main listening position.

looks great though. congrats.

Michael

I do want it to aim up at me. I tried peices of wood, but my wife laughed at it. I agree, it needs to be angled to me just as the mains need to be toed in towards the listening position.

knownalien_

one thing about the new outlaws:

they are very very thin. very.

very.

but the power transformer virtually makes contact with the casing. because of that, at high spl's, the unit will still get hot even though it is a fanless design, which I think most prefer.

its funny, but I have more watts on the two main channels than the most powerful Denon receiver can match.

tdeluce

knownalien_ wrote:

one thing about the new outlaws:

they are very very thin. very.

very.

but the power transformer virtually makes contact with the casing. because of that, at high spl's, the unit will still get hot even though it is a fanless design, which I think most prefer.

its funny, but I have more watts on the two main channels than the most powerful Denon receiver can match.

I recommend getting one more for you LSiC...

knownalien_

tdeluce wrote:

I recommend getting one more for you LSiC...

oh, I will. it'd be a crime not to when they are so cheap!

heiney9

knownalien_ wrote:

one thing about the new outlaws:

they are very very thin. very.

very.

but the power transformer virtually makes contact with the casing. because of that, at high spl's, the unit will still get hot even though it is a fanless design, which I think most prefer.

its funny, but I have more watts on the two main channels than the most powerful Denon receiver can match.

I'd be interested to know what type of amp design is used. It can't be Mosfet or bi-polar class A/AB. It must be a class D or chip type amp. No way you could get that kind of power in that small of a chassis w/ a small tranny without it being a switching type amp. Nothing wrong with that...I am just curious. You have a very nice set-up, enjoy and happy listening

H9

PolknPepsi

Those green IC's look pretty nice and as always the speakers look like little soldiers wearing tuxedos.
.......and those Outlaw Monoblocks are of a neat slim design and affordable to boot!

cfrizz

Here is part of the writeup a guy over on Outlaw did of the M200 which answers your question.

"The M200 is a somewhat unusual design. A traditional solid state class A/B 200W amp would generate a great deal of heat, making it very difficult to stack multiple amps closely together without providing some mechanical means of ventilation. And yet, the M200 has no mechanical cooling components: no fans, no heat pipes, no water cooling monstrocities such as might be found in an overclocked PC. This is because the M200 is a hybrid. For the first 80W, the M200 is a traditional class A/B design, at which point it is very similar in design concept to an individual channel from an amp such as Outlaw's Model 7100 (although there does not appear to be any specific design component carry-over between the M200 and Outlaw's other amp products). When asked to produce more than 80W, the M200 switches transparently from class A/B to class G amplification. This transition is reported to take only 2 microseconds (that's 0.002 milliseconds, or 0.000002 seconds) and be completely inaudible. It is this reliance on class G amplification under high demand conditions (which are rare in most cases) that allows the M200 to be so small and to not yield overheating problems when stacked or installed in cramped spaces. But how does it sound? There's one good way to find out..."

heiney9 wrote:

I'd be interested to know what type of amp design is used. It can't be Mosfet or bi-polar class A/AB. It must be a class D or chip type amp. No way you could get that kind of power in that small of a chassis w/ a small tranny without it being a switching type amp. Nothing wrong with that...I am just curious. You have a very nice set-up, enjoy and happy listening

H9

audiobliss

So, when it's asked to produce more than 80 watts, let's say 140, and it switches into class G mode, are all 140 watts 'G' watts? Or are the first 80 still Class A/B and the other 60 'G' watts?

Are there any wholy G class amplifiers? If so, how do they sound/perform? Is class G more lenient, meaning it allows for more distortion and such? I would assume so.

heiney9

Class G I believe is what is known as a switching amp. Meaning the outputs are either fully on or fully off. Class AB has the outputs half on or half off. Class A is fully on (no switching). Class A gives (argueably the best sound) AB is a nice compromise especially if it's biased heavily towards class A. Class G in most applications is less desireable becasue of switching (notch) distortion. Typically these are used in subs. And this hybrid is probably better than full class G. Class G is very very effecient. Class AB is generally considered to be effecient. Athought as it biases higher towards class A it becomes less effecient. Class A is the least effecient dissapating almost 50% of it energy as heat. That's the skinny and if I've mis spoken I'm someone will correct me.

H9

heiney9

audiobliss wrote:

So, when it's asked to produce more than 80 watts, let's say 140, and it switches into class G mode, are all 140 watts 'G' watts? Or are the first 80 still Class A/B and the other 60 'G' watts?

Are there any wholy G class amplifiers? If so, how do they sound/perform? Is class G more lenient, meaning it allows for more distortion and such? I would assume so.

Nope it is constantly switching between classes. It's the same with an AB design. Most (AB) are biased to run in pure A for say about 5-10 watts and then switch to class AB for the rest. The switching has to do with the wave form swithcing poles on the transistor from + to -. The point where the wave form crosses over from + to - is the switching point and if it's going + to - it switches of the pos side of the tranny and switches on the neg side until it does a 1/2 cycle again them turns off the neg and turns on the pos. This is more effecient becasue when the signal doesn't need to use the other "half" of the transistor it shuts off. But this comes at a price...notch distortion and a high degree on non-linearities, which can be contolled/eliminated with biasing and negative feedback. In class A both sides of the transistor are on all the time; the half not used has to dissipate the energy, and it's done in the form of heat. The whole transistor stays on but only half is being used to reproduce the wave form in each cycle (AC). AB class amps have been around for along time and while switching distortion and non-linearities are by products, negative feedback and biasing are the general ways to minimize these effects. As for class G, I'm not sure how they get around the switching or non-linearities they for sure are there. Class G maybe very similar to how the Sonic T-amp worked.

H9

knownalien_

audiobliss wrote:

So, when it's asked to produce more than 80 watts, let's say 140, and it switches into class G mode, are all 140 watts 'G' watts? Or are the first 80 still Class A/B and the other 60 'G' watts?

Are there any wholy G class amplifiers? If so, how do they sound/perform? Is class G more lenient, meaning it allows for more distortion and such? I would assume so.

the amps I have are rated at 0.05% THD from 8 to 4 ohms. so yes, they are very clean sounding.

speakergeek

Nice setup there knownalien! I have been seriously considering the Outlaw 1070 recevier my self as an upgrade from my TX-SR600.

audiobliss

Rest assured it'll be better than your Onkyo. However, you may want to consider separates.

knownalien_

to be honest, I am not lying when I say I do not need a sub. Perhaps it is because my room is medium sized, but who knows. I have listened to a lot now. Again, I am listening to flat reproductions. no "rock" eq or anything like that. Just direct and flat, and even at that the bass can be overpowering. I never thought that would be the case.

Someone onces asked about rock and the RTi's vs. the LSi's. I can say this for sure having many different kinds of music. The LSi's are likely to shine wherever there exists the chance that the performers might have done something unique. The LSi's will bring that out. But in places where they are just performing the notes, like a typical Rush song, then you won't get a lot more out of it save some clarity. Hell, at this level you can start to hear engineering errors, which is kind of cool. But putting something on like David Bowie's Space Oddity or Jesus Christ Superstar, you are going to hear things you never heard before or merely suspected before but really heard upon listening them to them on the LSi's. So, when listening to groups like Rush, you are likely to get a lot of raw power hearing them on the RTi's, like the 12's. I would love to hear Rush on the RTi12's. I have only heard one song on them, but that was using Rush's worst engineered recording. I used that particular one to test the tweeter only.