Thinking about adding LSi9 Speakers

jgladden

I currently am running JBL 4312B monitors as my front speakers in a 6:1 system. I have Polk CSi 30 front center, FXi 30 sourrounds, RM202 rear center, and Polk PSW 404 Sub. I use a RX-V2200 Yamaha receiver. I loved the LSi 9 bookshelf speakersin the store. They produce the highs that my JBL's can't reach and sound as good as my Boston Acoustics do in the car through my Alpine head unit. This is the sound I have been wanting in my home unit. The 404 sub gives me plenty of base. What I am looking for is the cleaner highs. Will I be happy using the LSi9's as my front speakers with the rest of my system,and scraping my 25 year old JBL's? Also, I currently have my 404 sub speaker wired as recommended by Polk. Speaker wire runs from the main speaker Out of the amp and goes to the sub and from the speaker out of the sub to the front speakers. Can I still Bi-wire the LSi9's and keep this sub arrangement?

aaharvel

First- welcome to the forum jgladden. Although you have a pretty nice receiver, I would not recommend driving 4ohm lsi9's with it. The links below provide both a review of your receiver as well as lab results from hometheatermag.com on the yamaha v2200- and they mention the fact that it's not wise to drive an inefficent (hard to drive) 4ohm speaker- in this case the LSi9.

Contrary to popular opine, underpowering your speakers is much more dangerous to your equipment then overpowering them. I can tell you right now that anything past moderate volume with lsi9's could possibly lead to clipping of the yammie's amp- putting it into "protect" mode and possibly damaging your 'new' speakers as well. Bottom line- if you want to drive lsi speakers- you need to buy a separate amplifier to hook up to the pre-outs of your Yamaha.

Lastly- biwiring is not going to make a difference, especially when connected to a receiver not designed to run these types of speakers (whether or not the receiver has a 4ohm switch is irrelevant. They're not designed to push these speakers, period.)

Forget about biwiring. If you want lsi9's your primary concern needs to be with a separate 2ch. amp (or 4ch. amp if you want to biwire/biamp). Some inexpensive options are Outlaw, NAD, and Adcom.

As far as subwoofer hookup is concerned- i recommend using the subwoofer out on your receiver (RCA plug), setting your crossover in your receiver to 80hz, ALL speakers to 'Small', subwoofer to 'On'.

Good luck.

Review:
http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/114/

Lab Measurements:
http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/114/index2.html

Eman

There is no scientific basis for the previous response. I have come across a few reviews where an entire set of Lsis including a pair of towers war powered thru an HK receiver rated at 75wpc. Again and again people claim that the Lsis, RTi12 and Rti10s need a separate amp again no scientific basis. I have run them on numerous occasions and the HK amps are fine even Frys use them as well as tweeters to power their mid line speaker demo rooms without separates. The Lsi 9 are booksheleves so that even makes them easier to drive since the low frequencies will be handled by a subwoofer.

The only fact is that a better amp will result in a lower noise floor and provide you with more headroom before you clip. Many of the higher line of high current receivers rated at 75 wpc all channels driven can and will drive these speakers. As a matter of fact I dont recall seeing any disclaimer from Polk audio stating that the warrantty is void if separates are not used or that separates are required or that separates are recommended - Does anyone else?

tdeluce

If you listen at anything close to reference levels aaharvel is correct - I have a Denon AVR-4802 which is considered to have some very good amps for a receiver and I have triped into protection a few times with my speaker system ( all of them are 4 ohm ).

I pulled the trigger on three m2200 which I will get on
Wednesday for my LCR and will use my Denon amps
for the surrounds.

Dennis Gardner

Who needs scientific proof, when you've heard it happen a number of times?

Other than the HK you mentioned, I have witnessed Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony and JVC thermal shutdowns with multi channel music. It doesn't even take the larger harder to drive speakers to accomplish this feat, though the RTi-150, Rti-12, LSi-9 & 15 are notorious for cooking receivers. Oh yeah, subs were in use and all speakers were set to small.

tdeluce

Its basic physics...

Do the math. Much depends upon the load of your
speakers, the power supply supply and tranformer
of the amps, etc.

Dennis Gardner

Content edited by brain ****....................

tdeluce

Who are you replying to - I am agreeing with you...

Check out my post above your first one...

danger boy

Dennis Gardner wrote:

Who needs scientific proof, when you've heard it happen a number of times?

Other than the HK you mentioned, I have witnessed Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony and JVC thermal shutdowns with multi channel music. It doesn't even take the larger harder to drive speakers to accomplish this feat, though the RTi-150, Rti-12, LSi-9 & 15 are notorious for cooking receivers. Oh yeah, subs were in use and all speakers were set to small.

you forgot to mention Onkyo too.

aaharvel

It's a moot point. You guys argue with thE dumbass. I've slapped him around enough.

shack

Very few AV recievers are rated for a 4 ohm load. While not considered a huge load in the realm of high-end speakers, even the LSi9 has been measured down in the 2 ohm impedence range at certain frequencies. That is a lot to ask of a mass market AVR that "IS NOT RATED" to do so. Now THAT is a scientific fact.

cfrizz

Thanks for the heads up Aaharvel. I will now add Eman to my ignore list. I suggest others do as well.

steveinaz

JGLadden,

aaharvel is dead-on with his first post. His answers were text-book correct.

shack

Russman had Eman pegged.....

Anyone that says 'Padawan' in their post is a homo of the highest order, and should NEVER be taken seriously. This type of person is known to wack it like a red-assed monkey, dressed only in a burlap robe, with action figures abound in said room.

Think brohams.

The guy had his demos from, and has based his conclusions on, rooms at CC and Tweeter. Hello? McFly?

Cheers,
Rooster

Funny thread here....

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31873

A quote from Eman....

You are privileged to have a smart new guy like me on these forums - from the looks of things you need people like me who deal with the facts and voice their opinions being straight and to the point. Next time Ill try and be more sensitive - did not mean to hurt your fragile feelings. I look forward to posting more facts in this forum. Adios.

One more new fact...My ignore list just increased by 1...and that's a FACT!

steveinaz

"wack it like a red-assed monkey"...ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TroyD

How did I miss all that??

Serves me right for not paying attention. Just another dude that needs to feel better about what he has purchased.

Bottom line is there ARE receivers that will run the LSi's...at low enough volumes, MANY will. There is a difference between something working and something that is working well.

BDT

aaharvel

uuuuhhhh... it's not worth it.

Tritonman

*sigh* why cant we all just get along.

shack

Originally Posted by Eman on 09-04-2005, 05:18 PM
OK I will leave this place as this is my last post but hear this:

Can't trust anyone these days....just another empty promise.

aaharvel

why doesn't he go the way of Spydie? Man, that would be grrreat!

Sami

TroyD wrote:

Bottom line is there ARE receivers that will run the LSi's...at low enough volumes, MANY will. There is a difference between something working and something that is working well.

Very true. I didn't have any problem running my LSi's (although just the 7's) at reference level with my receiver. Didn't even get hot. Now sonic quality did improve once I added a separate amplifier to the front stage but that's another story.

aaharvel

Sami wrote:

Very true. I didn't have any problem running my LSi's (although just the 7's) at reference level with my receiver. Didn't even get hot. Now sonic quality did improve once I added a separate amplifier to the front stage but that's another story.

yup. 7's are basically 6ohm, not the advertised 4. I would feel somewhat comfortable driving 2lsi7's on my h/k. Nothing over that though.

PolknPepsi

tdeluce wrote:

I pulled the trigger on three m2200 which I will get on
Wednesday for my LCR and will use my Denon amps for the surrounds.

Man!

Good luck with those new Outlaw amps......

Sami

aaharvel wrote:

yup. 7's are basically 6ohm, not the advertised 4. I would feel somewhat comfortable driving 2lsi7's on my h/k. Nothing over that though.

I was driving 5 at RL without any problems with HK AVR7200.

aaharvel

what's RL?

The 7200 is a beast of a receiver. Much more potent than my 235.

Dennis Gardner

aaharvel wrote:

The 7200 is a beast of a receiver.

The 7200/7300 are in another league when it comes to high current designs. I think it is telling that tdeluce had trouble with the higher end Denon receiver.

Bottom line is only a handful of receivers can handle the load and at their price point, you should consider separates.

audiobliss

Man, Eman's post is jus sooo hilarious!!!!

I personally don't see what isn't scientific about aaharvel's post.

The scientific method is based upon experimentation, and I don't see how owning/demoing various receivers powering LSi's and other 4ohm loads would fail to qualify as experimentation. As aaharvel and quite a few other members have found, the vast majority of receivers (especially those the likes of Yamaha) are not able to adequately drive a 4ohm load.

Harmon Kardon's receivers are very unusual among the affordable receiver world in that they have high-current amplifier sections, meaning that they are capable of at least better pushing low-impedance loads.

Then you justify your statements by saying Fry's and Tweeters use receivers to power low-impedance loads? That doesn't mean squat.

And Polk having a disclaimer on their site? :rolleyes:

AsSiMiLaTeD

aaharvel wrote:

what's RL?

The 7200 is a beast of a receiver. Much more potent than my 235.

RL = Reference Level

Ferres

I have the lsi9 and a Marantz sr6300. The 6300 is 6.1 with 100wpc. It can handle the Lsi9 in normal stereo mode at decent volumes. But once I engage multi-channel mode it goes into 'protect' and promptly shuts down.

shack

Ferres wrote:

I have the lsi9 and a Marantz sr6300. The 6300 is 6.1 with 100wpc. It can handle the Lsi9 in normal stereo mode at decent volumes. But once I engage multi-channel mode it goes into 'protect' and promptly shuts down.

That's very unscientific...but is EXACTLY what many have tried to explain.

Sami

Dennis Gardner wrote:

Bottom line is only a handful of receivers can handle the load and at their price point, you should consider separates.

When the MSRP of the 7200 is $1799, yes I would agree. I got mine for $800 so it was a very good purchase. Of course now I feel the amp section is going to waste driving only the surrounds but on the other hand the $350 I spend on that Adcom GFA7400 improved my 2.1 channel experience dramatically.

Adcom is driving L&R bi-amped and the 5th channel is used for centre. HK is driving the remaining LS&RS (5.1). I might look for an affordable prepro in the future and move the HK to another system.