Getting into tubes

keith allen

If a fella wanted to get into the tubes for the first time...what would be most bang for the buck?SDA2's will be the speakers,and a cd mmf25 the player.Should I go tube pre,and amp?Input man..Input!

hoosier21

I would get a tube pre amp first.
For not too much $$, you can get a Dared for 399.00, there is a sed one at Agon for 329.00 from the tuner guy.

If you want to spend more, you have tons of choices.

keith allen

What about an intergrated tube amp?

hoosier21

plenty of those too, lots to choose from.

ND13

I agree with Hoosier, get a tube pre to start. The Dodd ELP transformed my system. Other than speakers, nothing else can make such a dramatic difference in a system's sound quality, IMHO. The Dared that Hoosier mentioned has been getting great reviews, plus it has a remote and looks nice to boot.

Here's a link to a BIN Dared http://cgi.ebay.com/2005-new-Dared-SL-2000A-tube-preamp-remote_W0QQitemZ5816169289QQcategoryZ14974QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

madmax

You can get a nice 50 to 60 watt integrated reasonably. Take a look at Manley, VTL, Jolida, ASL etc. I can set you up nicely with a Jolida for around $650-$700.
madmax

gidrah

I would suggest a decent tubed pre running common tubes. Get his feet wet a little before he risks a larger investment. A quality but inexpensive tubed pre teamed up with a nice SS amp can sound very nice and gives the option for expansion or substitution.

madmax

gidrah wrote:

Get his feet wet a little before he risks a larger investment.

The real risk is using a SS amp. :eek:

madmax

keith allen

OK,think Im gonna try an intergrated,looking at the jolida 302b,and the 502b...302 is better for my budget,but I may spend the extra,also found this hybrid,what do ya think of it

ND13

I'd go for the 502 over the hybrid. The hybrid will give you the tube pre/ ss amp conbo, but the 502 with 60 wpc(?) should outperform the hybrid at 100 wpc. If you get the 502 or 302 and don't like it, lemme know and if I haven't bought my long term amp, I may take it off your hands.

keith allen

Thanx a bunch for the input,I think Im leaning towards the 302,just because of price,the 502 is 10 watts more,but a good bit more $$$>I dont really know what good power is in a tube amp,guess I need to go to tubes 101

Dennis Gardner

The 10 watts in 502 vs 302 will produce quite a bit more bass control.

Check out this review:TNT Audio Review

ND13

I've been looking at tubes amps for several months now, and you should be able to pick up a nice 502 on AGon in the $500-700 range. That's alot of amp for the $$$. What are you trying to stay around $$$wise?

I want to clarify the range for the 502. I've seen one or two 502s go for $500, but they were snatched up fast and one had a binding post issue(minor). The majority do go in the 7s and 8s, with one in a great while going for over a grand and usually modded.

00p225

For the record, I went through some similar ideas with my polk sda=1c's. I originally ran them with an nad 1130 preamp into a 100wpc McIntosh MC-2100 (all solid state system). Very nice to listen to, good dynamics ok soundstage, and very smooth. Acoustics and piano sounded very good with this combo.

2nd try. Diy tube 12au7 preamp into the solid state McIntosh MC-2100. Much better detail, vocals started sounding real, soundstage grew in depth and width. Fun to swap tubes in the preamp here.

3rd try. Diy tube 12au7 preamp into a 200 wpc Soundcraftsmen PM-840 amplifier. Things started happening here! Soundstage really got deeper with better separation of instruments. I really feel this is due to the amp itself being in better condition than the 30 year old McIntosh. It needs a complete refurb as the aging caps etc are robbing it of detail etc. The extra power really opened up the polks as well.

4th try. 70wpc Jolida SJ-801 integrated. Seemed to have nearly as much power as the Soundcraftsmen. A bit more veiled, closer to the tube preamp with the McIntosh MC-2100. I always felt with some upgraded caps and resistors in the signal path as well as a good alps volume pot, the jolida would have really opened up in detail.

5th try. Diy 12au7 tube preamp into an 35wpc Eico HF-87 upgraded with some nice botique caps, resistors, and Electro Harmonix EL34 green labels. Now we're talking! Just as good of detail and soundstage as the Soundcraftsmen, but with way better vocals and piano. Running this combo with a Hagerman Bugle phono stage and Thorens TD-150 with Denon DL-160 is near sonic bliss for me! Some quality recordings now sound scary real when you close your eyes. The sound is quick, fast, with great note decay. Now I hear the strike of the drum as well as the drum itself. Bass is finally musical! This is the lowest powered setup Iv'e run with the polks, and I don't miss the extra power as there's no need to "turn it up" to hear the music. Everything is there at normal listening levels. Dynamics, bass and detail. Now it's time to build a tube dac so I can improve my digital source. Good luck on your hunt, I think a Jolida 502 or 801 would be the way to go, any less power, and your sda's won't sing. This is just my opinion

Dennis Gardner

Nice post on your findings, Oop225. You have hit on what most others have found out concerning what tubes can bring to or take away from your system. The right mix is hard to come by and has less to do with science and specs than most people will allow themselves to accept. It takes very little real power to achieve a great sound when all the pieces work together.

Again, guys.........with tubes it is less about horsepower ratings and more about the synergy of the pieces working in harmony together. Great sound can be had with only a few watts used in the proper manner.

madmax

Dennis Gardner wrote:

The 10 watts in 502 vs 302 will produce quite a bit more bass control.

I fully agree. Both are good and each has its own merits but if you want authoritive bass with the JoLida, pick the 502 and add some KT88's in place of the stock 6550's to get even more. This is not to say bass is bad with the 302. It is different. Pretty much like the difference between an amplified bass guitar and an acoustic bass. It is great to listen to but won't knock you around with any authority.

madmax