SONY STR DA7100 ES........Question

GATOR3000

Hi all

Have a receiver question……………….Presently have SONY STR DE897 AVR Receiver. 897 was my budget entry decision purchase when I was building my first HT.

I’m ready to upgrade and was looking at SONY STR DA7100 ES direct digital receiver 7 7 x 170W. I know most of you on this forum own HK’s, Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo, NAD, Outlaw…………etc.

I was looking at STR DA7100 ES specs and it looks good. Comparable with the big boys! Also, I understand that SONY did a lot of work on these new ES series to stay competitive.

Have a friend who can give me a good deal on this receiver and was wondering if any of you out there have comments/opinions on this unit.

All your help would by much appreciated.

Thanks Gator3000

jet2001

The new ES line of receivers are very nice....but very expensive. "Bang for your buck factor"...I'd look at another brand. I was looking at the DA3000ES for a long time, but found a better option with Denon. If cost isn't a factor in this decision, you'll be really happy with that new Sony.

aaharvel

It looks like a very nice receiver; but imo the asking price of $2,000 is absurd. If you google it you can find it for around $1,200 (used or new?) and that sounds alot more reasonable.

I say if you like the sound and features of it and can get it for around a grand then go for it. Welcome to the forums!

GATOR3000

Hey guys.............thanks for your help.....................last night I went to look at the 7100 ES again. For sure this is a nice receiver and I agree with you, $2000.00 is a lot for this receiver. I was talking to another salesman and he told me the 7100ES at 7 x 170 WPC is an overkill of power for my Rti8’s.

He told me to go with the STR DE3100 ES 7 x 120 WPC. The 120 W is plenty to drive my Rti8 with the ES series and lot of options for hook up. The 3100ES does not have the HDMI connectors as the 7100 ES, but most new HD displays today come with a standard Type A (19 pins) HDMI connectors.

Any comments/opinions on STR DE3100 ES? I know more power the better, but at double of cost.

aaharvel

well let's get one thing straight- the 7100 is NOT overkill for rti8's. With all channels driven at the same time- that receiver puts out more like 50watts a channel X7 (20hz-20khz), IF that.

That's why I say $2,000 is too much for it. For that amount of money- you can buy separates that will SMOKE the performance of the Sony- but might not have the connectivity options you're looking for.

As far as the 3100, take the wattage specs from the 7100 and apply the same formula. IOW, Sony ES receivers don't have much guts, and their specs very misleading. They might measure 20hz-20khz, but they only measure 1 or 2 channels simulatenously, not ALL 7 channels. They sure would make a kickass pre-amp however. If you're stuck on Sony ES- get the cheapest one with the connnections you want and buy a separate amplifier. You'll be glad you did.

jet2001

Yeah, your RTi8's will handle the 170 watts and still crave more. I have more faith in the ES line of Sony that Andrew does...but he makes some great points. With all channels driven you can count on the number of watts per channel to be less than 170...I'd be willing to bet that it's more than 50 considering their new digital drive amps...but not 170 all channels driven. The 3100 is also very nice. I'd buy the receiver with as many bells and whistles as you can afford...and if you need more power, make sure the receiver you choose has pre-outs.

It is not uncommon for people to put more stock in the video capabilities of a receiver than it's audio capabilities. I chose the Denon because it upconverts everything to component. It is only rated at 90 wpc, but that wasn't an overriding factor in my decision because it has pre-outs if I need to add an amp for more power. As it turns out, the receiver has all the power that I need for my space. I use it primarily for home theater...movies and tv...rarely for music. I made my decision based on those factors. You need to think about those things for your situation and ultimatly buy the receiver that best fits your needs.

Good luck!

GATOR3000

Sorry double post.......

GATOR3000

Andrew…thanks explaining/sharing you knowledge. I’m new to this and need all the help I can get. I like my polk drivers, but I feel that I’m missing that punch in the whole system I have now.

I like your idea of getting a receiver with pre-outs and get separate amp/s. I think that would be the way to go.

Thanks

GATOR3000

Jet2001......................you guys are right..............I will get a decent receiver with pre-outs and invest in amp/s for the centre and fronts. That way I have more flexibility to get what I like. I use my HT about 50/50 now and would like separate 2CH amp for audio as I started to listen to my CD's a lot more now than before.

If you have any suggestions as to what receiver to get and amp/s for the fronts and centre that would be much appreciated.

Thanks again

aaharvel

no problem Gator.

and jet you're right. I forgot those are the new digital amplifiers. Was thinking about the 1000es, 2000es. Anyway, I have GREAT faith in the Sony ES line in general- My ES cdp I got for $30 on the bay and it's my favorite piece BY FAR of anything that I own. I'll never sell it: regardless if I could sell it for 8x what I paid for it.

shiu

GATOR3000 wrote:

Hi all

I was looking at STR DA7100 ES specs and it looks good. Comparable with the big boys! Also, I understand that SONY did a lot of work on these new ES series to stay competitive.

Have a friend who can give me a good deal on this receiver and was wondering if any of you out there have comments/opinions on this unit.

All your help would by much appreciated.

Thanks Gator3000

The spec of this thing is impressive, 4 ohm capable, and weighs 52 lbs. It can definitely power your RTi8. It has 7.1 pre-outs if you need to add an amp later. If you can in fact get a good deal, go for it. The 3100ES looks good too.

MSkeezer

Hey Gator, I found a couple of reviews for the 3100ES...

CNET review

Audio Revolution review

shiu

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/displayreview.php?reviewid=4685

Here is one for the 9000ES, 110W, 8 ohm into 5 channels 0.1% THD, not bad for a Sony. What's I find impressive is that for 4 ohm, it goes up to 155W, into 5 channels, still at 0.1% THD. That means at clipping (usually >1% I would think) the power output would be even greater. The 7100ES is their current flag ship, so one would expect similar performance.

Some Sony models tested poorly under 5, or 7 channel driven conditions, but these new ES models may be exceptions.

Tritonman

I have the 5000es powering my RTi10's. If the 7100ES is anything like mine then you will have plenty of headroom on your RTi8's. Mine is also rated at 170x7. A very nice clean receiver. The 5000es also upconverts to component. If you can find a 5000es you may want to look into it..unless of course you need the HDMI connections on the 7100es

aaharvel

shiu wrote:

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/displayreview.php?reviewid=4685

Here is one for the 9000ES, 110W, 8 ohm into 5 channels 0.1% THD, not bad for a Sony. What's I find impressive is that for 4 ohm, it goes up to 155W, into 5 channels, still at 0.1% THD. That means at clipping (usually >1% I would think) the power output would be even greater. The 7100ES is their current flag ship, so one would expect similar performance.

Some Sony models tested poorly under 5, or 7 channel driven conditions, but these new ES models may be exceptions.

sorry Shiu but 155 watts in 5 channels at 0.1% means zip.

That receiver may reach 155 watts with 0.1% THD with each of the 5 channels driven independently at the 1KHZ point- but not with all channels driven SIMULATENOUSLY during the ENTIRE range of 20hz-20khz.

What i'm saying is don't trust the specs that Sony provides, even if it's for their ES line.

Mike682

I agree with Andrew regarding Sony. But I think the Sony ES receivers are pretty good and the ES line blows away their str-d line hands down. That article provided says it put out decent power with 5channels. This is a huge difference when compared to the str-d line.

I would recommend you listen to others in the same price range/budget before buying just to have a good comparison. I always recommend an audition of others to eliminate buyer's remorse after the purchase.

In the end, if you can get a good deal on it, you like the way it sounds, it has all the connections/conversions,etc. you want, and it can drive your speakers well, then grab one as this is a win/win situation.

aaharvel

Mike682 wrote:

I agree with Andrew regarding Sony. But I think the Sony ES receivers are pretty good and the ES line blows away their str-d line hands down. That article provided says it put out decent power with 5channels. This is a huge difference when compared to the str-d line.

I would recommend you listen to others in the same price range/budget before buying just to have a good comparison. I always recommend an audition of others to eliminate buyer's remorse after the purchase.

In the end, if you can get a good deal on it, you like the way it sounds, it has all the connections/conversions,etc. you want, and it can drive your speakers well, then grab one as this is a win/win situation.

I agree with Mike regarding Sony.

Mike682

aaharvel wrote:

I agree with Mike regarding Sony.

shiu

aaharvel wrote:

sorry Shiu but 155 watts in 5 channels at 0.1% means zip.

That receiver may reach 155 watts with 0.1% THD with each of the 5 channels driven independently at the 1KHZ point- but not with all channels driven SIMULATENOUSLY during the ENTIRE range of 20hz-20khz.

What i'm saying is don't trust the specs that Sony provides, even if it's for their ES line.

Andrew, if you follow the link and read the review, they tested the 9000ES at 155W, into 4 ohms, into 5 channels simultaneously. For 2 channel into 4 ohms, it measured 205W. Home Cinema Choice tested other receivers including HK, NAD, Rotel the same way.
You can select other receivers and read their test results. I know many Sony models didn't do well on "5 or 7 channel driven tests", but we should not assume all Sony models are bad in that regard. I am not trying to defend Sony and the only Sony products I own now are a TV set and a DVD player.

aaharvel

ah damnit i misread. i thought you were referring to the 7100.

As far as the 90000000000000000000es, that's the biggest ****' receiver i've ever seen man. For it's size and it's price, it'd BETTER be able to put out 155watts into 4ohms; either that or open my fridge for me and bring me beer on demand.

aaharvel

i agree. listen to it and make up your own mind. While their ES stuff is the only thing i like- they still need to shoot straight with the consumer about watts. They're not the only ones either.

Their 9000es supposedly puts out 155x5 into 4ohms. Great. It's advertised as 200x7 into 8ohms. That's a FAR cry from the advertised claim and with a receiver that costs over $4,000 it's absurd.

The strde998- rated at 110x7. In the lab it puts out 32.4 X5 at .09thd and 47x5 at 1%thd. Do a little math and with all 7 channels being driven that numbers fall somewhere to around 25 and 29 wpc x5 respectively.

http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/605sony/index2.html

It's not slamming stuff when you put facts out there with actual lab measurements to back it up. It's about time the industry comes up with a REAL standard to report wattage specs accurately. None of this 1channel at a time **** anymore. ALL available channels driven simulatenously throughout the entire audible range. Period.

shiu

There are not that many receivers out there that one can rely on its advertised specs for all channel driven power. In the "mid level" range, HK, NAD, Rotel tend to deliver, or sometimes exceed their advertised power.

Having said that, Gator is asking about the 7100ES, I took a look of its specs and noticed that it weighs 52 lbs. That's within a few pounds to the weight of the HKAVR7300. BTW, to me, the 7300 is a better value but it may not have all the features that Gator needs. I know we cannot just go by weight, but it is still a good indicator. The previous flagship, the 9000ES has a massive toroidal transformer in it, and that helped push its weight to almost 63 lbs. I am not sure if the current flagship 7100ES has a toroidal or not, if yes then it is another good sign. In recent years, the top 2 ES models appeared to have a decent track record in terms of being robust.

Anyway, if Gator likes the features of the Sony, IMHO we probably should not discourage him too much other than forewarning him (we've done that already) that it is almost a certainty that he will not get the advertised power but that he likely get more than enough power for his RTi8, and some.

Mike682

aaharvel wrote:

It's about time the industry comes up with a REAL standard to report wattage specs accurately. None of this 1channel at a time **** anymore. ALL available channels driven simulatenously throughout the entire audible range. Period.

Agree 100%

speakergeek

shiu wrote:

There are not that many receivers out there that one can rely on its advertised specs for all channel driven power. In the "mid level" range, HK, NAD, Rotel tend to deliver, or sometimes exceed their advertised power.

Having said that, Gator is asking about the 7100ES, I took a look of its specs and noticed that it weighs 52 lbs. That's within a few pounds to the weight of the HKAVR7300. BTW, to me, the 7300 is a better value but it may not have all the features that Gator needs. I know we cannot just go by weight, but it is still a good indicator. The previous flagship, the 9000ES has a massive toroidal transformer in it, and that helped push its weight to almost 63 lbs. I am not sure if the current flagship 7100ES has a toroidal or not, if yes then it is another good sign. In recent years, the top 2 ES models appeared to have a decent track record in terms of being robust.

Anyway, if Gator likes the features of the Sony, IMHO we probably should not discourage him too much other than forewarning him (we've done that already) that it is almost a certainty that he will not get the advertised power but that he likely get more than enough power for his RTi8, and some.

It doesn't have a toroidal transformer, but its transformer is frickin' huge. It is a nice lookin' receiver IMO. Now they come in black as well

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-rsoDdk7ey4L/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=10420&id=morephotos&i=1587100ESB&pi=8&display=XL#Tab

drew spelts

I'm going from a Sony To a Harman Kardon because there are just so many things that sony seems to cheepen. After you play with a HK you just know that it is quality.

goingganzo

at 4 k you can get in to pre pro entry level new and good used.