Fuel Economy...

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  • Markymark
    Markymark Posts: 111
    edited October 2005
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    if I keep my foot out of it, I can get upwards of 38+mpg (record is 44 highway) and around 35mpg in the city. BUT, I like hearing my intake and I like the feel of my engine at higher rpms (solid mounts...) so I can't keep my foot out of it. But, even with my primal nature controlling how I drive, I still manage around 30mpg in town.
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  • Fallen Kell
    Fallen Kell Posts: 94
    edited October 2005
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    *sighs* I only wish I could use what my manual recommends... Its rought when the recommended is 97 octane, and the highest I can get outside a race track is 94 at Sunnoco, 93 though is the low end that is listed...

    I will say that this is a great thread that I never would have expected to see on an audio forum ;)

    At least when I drive nice I get around 25-28 highway, but when I start pushing it 8-9 is all I will see (but they go by FAST :D )
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  • Markymark
    Markymark Posts: 111
    edited October 2005
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    wow.. all motor or forced induction?

    What car and what mods?
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  • wodom1
    wodom1 Posts: 1,054
    edited October 2005
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    I've thought about the K&N filter, but haven't done anything about it. I've got 235 HP right now, and have read on line that the K&N filter would give me up to 20% more if installed. I probably won't do anything with the exhaust, as I don't feel like dumping the money into it when I'll probably be trading it in in a couple of years. It's actually got a nice rumble to it with the stock exhaust. If my company wasn't paying for my gas there would be no way I could afford to keep this thing -- average gas price is $2.89/gallon in Chicago and I've got a 20 gallon tank...
    "I got into the music business thinking it was really radical, that it wasn't really a business at all, that it was a lot of people being artistic and creative. Not true, and it made me very depressed."

    Thom Yorke of Radiohead

    SOPA. Bow down before me, ****. Want a cookie?


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  • Mike682
    Mike682 Posts: 2,074
    edited October 2005
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    I guess they changed the tank size on the '03s as my '03 Durango has a 25gal tank....

    I agree, the stock exhaust does sound pretty sweet. I like the low rumble at idle. I've been wanting to get to the parts store to grab a K&N air filter but I've been too lazy....
    Receiver: harmankardon AVR235
    Mains: polk R30
    Center: polk CSi3
    Rear Surrounds: polk R20
    Subwoofer: polk PSW404
    DVD: Panasonic DVD-S29
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  • wodom1
    wodom1 Posts: 1,054
    edited October 2005
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    Mike682 wrote:
    I guess they changed the tank size on the '03s as my '03 Durango has a 25gal tank....

    I agree, the stock exhaust does sound pretty sweet. I like the low rumble at idle. I've been wanting to get to the parts store to grab a K&N air filter but I've been too lazy....


    My manual says that I've got a 25 gal. tank, but I've never got more than 21 gallons into it before the pump shuts off -- and this was with the gauge in the red with the light on. Any ideas?
    "I got into the music business thinking it was really radical, that it wasn't really a business at all, that it was a lot of people being artistic and creative. Not true, and it made me very depressed."

    Thom Yorke of Radiohead

    SOPA. Bow down before me, ****. Want a cookie?


    Polk Audio LSi15
    Polk Audio LSiC
    Polk Audio FXi30
    Samsung LN-T4061F 40" 1080P LCD HDTV
    Sony Playstation 3
    Outlaw Model 990 Pre/Pro
    Rotel 985 MK II
    Rotel 1072 CDP
    Soundstage Vacuum II tube pre
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  • bobman1235
    bobman1235 Posts: 10,822
    edited October 2005
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    There's a lot of "room for error" in those gas guages. Sounds like you could go another 4 gallons no matter what hte guage says.
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
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  • Fallen Kell
    Fallen Kell Posts: 94
    edited October 2005
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    Markymark wrote:
    wow.. all motor or forced induction?

    What car and what mods?

    Subaru WRX (it has a turbo, so that is the reason for the huge difference, if I don't go above 2.8k rpm it acts like a regular 4 cylinder, but start hitting 3-3.5k rpm when the turbo has spun up you first feel the kick in your back and then at around 6-7k rpm you can watch the fuel gauge move). No mods other then a K&N air filter and having the engine and computer properly tuned.
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  • Mike682
    Mike682 Posts: 2,074
    edited October 2005
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    wodom1 wrote:
    My manual says that I've got a 25 gal. tank, but I've never got more than 21 gallons into it before the pump shuts off -- and this was with the gauge in the red with the light on. Any ideas?

    My guess is there's still about 4 gallons in the tank when the guage is on red and lit. The car manual says how much fuel is in the tank when the gas light first goes on but I forgot the number....

    They usually give you some time after the gas light goes on before the car will actually stall.
    Receiver: harmankardon AVR235
    Mains: polk R30
    Center: polk CSi3
    Rear Surrounds: polk R20
    Subwoofer: polk PSW404
    DVD: Panasonic DVD-S29
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  • wodom1
    wodom1 Posts: 1,054
    edited October 2005
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    Mike682 wrote:
    My guess is there's still about 4 gallons in the tank when the guage is on red and lit. The car manual says how much fuel is in the tank when the gas light first goes on but I forgot the number....

    They usually give you some time after the gas light goes on before the car will actually stall.


    I've never run it out of gas, so I don't know for sure. I've got the electronic display on the ceiling that tells me my avg. economy, distance till empty, etc. and I usually go by the computed DTE before I fill up. When it tells me that I've got about 10 miles DTE, I'll get some gas.
    "I got into the music business thinking it was really radical, that it wasn't really a business at all, that it was a lot of people being artistic and creative. Not true, and it made me very depressed."

    Thom Yorke of Radiohead

    SOPA. Bow down before me, ****. Want a cookie?


    Polk Audio LSi15
    Polk Audio LSiC
    Polk Audio FXi30
    Samsung LN-T4061F 40" 1080P LCD HDTV
    Sony Playstation 3
    Outlaw Model 990 Pre/Pro
    Rotel 985 MK II
    Rotel 1072 CDP
    Soundstage Vacuum II tube pre
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  • Markymark
    Markymark Posts: 111
    edited October 2005
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    Well, fuel-sending units are known to fail. heck, mine is bad. It reads 3/8's of a tank when I am completely dry.
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,713
    edited October 2005
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    If you can get a 20% power increase out of an air filter, I'll...well...I don't know what I'll do but odds are I won't have to do it! No way can a stinkin' air filter of any kind get a 20% power increase. Not even with an "intake tube". Especially not the crap I have seen on the market. They may be a "higher flow tube" but they are sucking hot engine bay air down the TB. That will do more harm to your power ratings than the freer flowing air will help it.

    If you are going to get a K&N, you can expect to see a 2-5% increase and that is pushing it. Most people see 0-2% increase and the largest dyno proven jumps I have seen have been as much as 10% and those have been supercharged engines with big, 2.0+Liter roots and screw type superchargers on top of engines with displacements somewhere north of 4.5 liters.

    As far as fuel mileage goes, try this on for size. The tank size is 25 gallons. Fuel grade can be nothing less than 92 octane but you can throw 104 octane in and it will just run more like a scalded dog than it did before. It gets about 12 miles to the gallon city and 18 highway on a good day. If you put your foot into it hard, gas mileage can dip down to the 5 mile per gallon range. It'll run to 149 mph before it hits the rev limiter. It is making a severely under-rated 380 horses and 450 pound feet of torque. Actual numbers from a dyno showed those numbers at the wheels, after the losses from the drivetrain. That means the engine is making around 435-450 horses and well over 500 pound feet of torque. Probably closer to 550 pound feet of torque. Lastly, it gets driven every day.

    I can't complain though because I wouldn't own this vehicle if I was worried about gas mileage. I have no right to complain about gas prices because I'm not the only one suffering. I made my own bed with this vehicle, now I have to lay in it until I have the money to get a vehicle that doesn't require so many resources.
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited October 2005
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    Who claimed a 20% hp gain? All I said was up to 10 hp, which I've actually seen on a dyno.

    The Green brand flowed about 15-20% more air than the K&N and was better built than the K&N to boot. I use Greens in all my vehicles and have gotten better fuel economy, performance and throttle response.

    I could only wish that I could get 69 more hp for a $50 investment
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • wodom1
    wodom1 Posts: 1,054
    edited October 2005
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    ND13 wrote:
    Who claimed a 20% hp gain? All I said was up to 10 hp, which I've actually seen on a dyno.

    The Green brand flowed about 15-20% more air than the K&N and was better built than the K&N to boot. I use Greens in all my vehicles and have gotten better fuel economy, performance and throttle response.

    I could only wish that I could get 69 more hp for a $50 investment


    I said that I had heard you could get up to a 20% gain, but that was just from reading something online -- that number seemed ridiculously high to me as well.
    "I got into the music business thinking it was really radical, that it wasn't really a business at all, that it was a lot of people being artistic and creative. Not true, and it made me very depressed."

    Thom Yorke of Radiohead

    SOPA. Bow down before me, ****. Want a cookie?


    Polk Audio LSi15
    Polk Audio LSiC
    Polk Audio FXi30
    Samsung LN-T4061F 40" 1080P LCD HDTV
    Sony Playstation 3
    Outlaw Model 990 Pre/Pro
    Rotel 985 MK II
    Rotel 1072 CDP
    Soundstage Vacuum II tube pre
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited October 2005
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    Oh, okay, I thought John misinterpreted my initial post about the K&Ns. That would be the bargain of the century if that was true. On my 05 Dakota with the 4.7V8 it woud be 69 more hp for only $50. Most will spend thousands to get that kind of hp increase. :D
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • CrBoy
    CrBoy Posts: 580
    edited October 2005
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    What kind of air filter should I get for my Metro to increase the Horses under the hood (70 Hp at this time WAAAAAAAAAA :( )...

    It might not even worth it but...
    <|>
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  • sda2mike
    sda2mike Posts: 3,131
    edited October 2005
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    my trusty '96 civic always gets 30 mpg in mixed driving...been that way for 140,000 plus miles :D a couple years ago, i had a hot rod. a '98 z28. i upgraded the rear diff from 2.73 to 3.73, put in a 3000 stall converter, did some exhaust and intake stuff and reprogrammed the computer. stock, on the hwy, this beast got 31mpg! with all those mods, i still got 28mpg hwy...the best part of the car, of course was the engine. tons of power, well-behaved and economical. the rest of the car was a piece of ****! i mean everything. i won't bother listing, just think everything but the motor! and there's my civic! always ready for the next mission..hat's off to honda! actually in everyday, drive thru traffic conditions, the honda was much more fun then the chevy..something about the steering, seating position and reflexes... :)
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited October 2005
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    The only thing, imo, that the F-bodies were good for were their drivetrains. The rest of the car fell apart very quickly from my professional experience. The Mustangs hold up much, much better overall.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • sda2mike
    sda2mike Posts: 3,131
    edited October 2005
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    ND13 wrote:
    The only thing, imo, that the F-bodies were good for were their drivetrains. The rest of the car fell apart very quickly from my professional experience. The Mustangs hold up much, much better overall.

    yep, you are correct...the transmission **** the bed..thank GOD for extended warranties! :D also, the tailshaft housing went @ 140 mph...and the diffs were always made of glass...i'm glad i got over that hobby...it was fun for a while, though
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  • nadams
    nadams Posts: 5,877
    edited October 2005
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    CrBoy wrote:
    What kind of air filter should I get for my Metro to increase the Horses under the hood (70 Hp at this time WAAAAAAAAAA :( )...

    It might not even worth it but...

    I don't think you're gonna be able to do anything for the power of that 3cyl... They just aren't designed to be powerful engines!
    Ludicrous gibs!
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  • CrBoy
    CrBoy Posts: 580
    edited October 2005
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    nadams wrote:
    I don't think you're gonna be able to do anything for the power of that 3cyl... They just aren't designed to be powerful engines!

    it's a 1.3L 4 cyl...
    <|>
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  • sda2mike
    sda2mike Posts: 3,131
    edited October 2005
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    i had a k&n in the aforementioned '98 z28...snake oil, son...does'nt do sh-t! :rolleyes:
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited October 2005
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    sda2mike wrote:
    i had a k&n in the aforementioned '98 z28...snake oil, son...does'nt do sh-t! :rolleyes:


    You wouldn't notice that much on a massaged engine like what you had in that car. I really did see a 10 hp increase , on the dyno, when one was installed on a stock 2001 Dakota R/T.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • sda2mike
    sda2mike Posts: 3,131
    edited October 2005
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    ND13 wrote:
    You wouldn't notice that much on a massaged engine like what you had in that car. I really did see a 10 hp increase , on the dyno, when one was installed on a stock 2001 Dakota R/T.

    not to doubt you...but, was your test of each filter done on the same day? same temp same conditions, etc?
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited October 2005
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    sda2mike wrote:
    not to doubt you...but, was your test of each filter done on the same day? same temp same conditions, etc?

    Yep. After that test, we started adding alot of other goodies to the engine. We did a base run between each addition. We also tried different combos of the different tweaks to see what meshed together better, and actually eliminated some of the tweaks that were to be added.

    But to be honest with you, if the Green brand is available to you, I would go that route. They flow more air and are more robust in their build quality.

    Also, even "IF" you can't feel or notice any difference, I would still buy one just for the value. You'll never have to buy another air filter again. The Mopar replacement filter for my Dakota is $28. For another $20-25 I can get the Green. :)
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • sda2mike
    sda2mike Posts: 3,131
    edited October 2005
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    the hp increase from an air filter opens an interesting debate..maybe some technologically advanced gearheads will chime in? is a dyno the best way to test hp gains of an air filter? i would think when the car is moving you would get your best baseline. waddya think?
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  • Mike682
    Mike682 Posts: 2,074
    edited October 2005
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    sda2mike wrote:
    the hp increase from an air filter opens an interesting debate..maybe some technologically advanced gearheads will chime in? is a dyno the best way to test hp gains of an air filter? i would think when the car is moving you would get your best baseline. waddya think?

    I think the dyno is a good way to measure hp. Main reason is because you are measuring actual hp to the wheels AFTER the loss due to tranny, driveshaft, rear-end, etc.

    Plus the dyno is easy way to measure hp because hp can be measured & compared immediately after the change in variable...(air filter)
    Receiver: harmankardon AVR235
    Mains: polk R30
    Center: polk CSi3
    Rear Surrounds: polk R20
    Subwoofer: polk PSW404
    DVD: Panasonic DVD-S29
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  • Markymark
    Markymark Posts: 111
    edited October 2005
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    there is a difference between the car driving down the road sucking in air versus the car sitting and sucking in stagnant air. Another thing that would make a difference is a good air-dam under your front fascia. That helps to direct the cold air into your engine bay (as well as reduce drag under your car; henceforth, your mpg will increase).
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  • sda2mike
    sda2mike Posts: 3,131
    edited October 2005
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    true...as a car gets over the inertia thing...and before aerodynamics starts to become a drawback, an engine is at it's most efficient.
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  • CrBoy
    CrBoy Posts: 580
    edited October 2005
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    New question about this Fuel Economy ****...

    How "multiple bends + 1 hole" in the muffler/exhaust system can affect the Fuel Economy in a given car?

    I put some Regular gas and the MPG is going south... new cables and plugs are on the way...

    Lemme know..
    <|>
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