AC Problems: Who's lying to me?

AsSiMiLaTeD

The other day my AC just quit working, it was just blowing out hot ait. So I walk outside where the big box is (I assume my compressor and fan), and nothing - no power, no fan working, nothing.

So I've had this problem before a couple of times where it just quit working like that, and the guy came out to replace a capacitor and it worked fine afterwards. This cap has been replaced a couple of times, about a year apart.

So fast forward to two days ago. Came home to the same problem. The guy came out and looked at it and said I need a whole new unit. He said the old one was worn out and was tripping my breaker. He also proceeded to lecture me on changing my filter and said mine was the worst he'd ever seen. I told him that I had just changed it this past weekend and he basically called me a liar. I'm super anal about stuff like that and change my filter every 30 days...

So I decided to have someone else come out and look at it. So this guy comes out and says the unit is working fine, and I just need a new capacitor, and I explain that we've tried that before and that it seems to work for about a year before I have issues again. He said the capacitor that was in there was only a 40 and that it needed an 80? He also recommended we take the hard start kit OUT because it actually does more harm than good - I thought the opposite was true. Isn't a hard start kit just an extra cap to help the cap already in there deal with tough loads? Finally, he shows me some pipe in the attic and says I should pour a cup of bleach down there every once in a while - WTF!?!?

So he's going to replace the old cap with the 80 and pull out the hard start kit and that should do the trick.

I don't know squat about ACs or about my particular unit - all I know is it says Lennox on the box outside. My house is only about 5 years old, this thing shouldn't be worn out yet.

What I do know is that I'm getting screwed over by someone. The first guy wanted to ram me up with **** with a $2000 new unit, the second decided to do so with only a $300 repair bill - so I decided to start with the least painful and go with the cap change.

So, any thoughts - who's lying to me??

polkatese

paging Mr. Zimkas, customer waiting in the lobby!

Frank Z is our In-house AC guru, pm him if I were you.

AsSiMiLaTeD

already PMd Frank with a link to this thread, I just posted it publically in case there was someone else who knew and more so because of the 1000 character limitation on PM...

gregit

It seems a bit strange to me that the compressor fan wasn't running b/c of the capacitor? That's typically only for the compressor, the fan will run as soon as the thermostat calls for air...the relay closes and starts the fan and compresser in your condensor unit (outside unit, as opposed the the evaporator unit which is your inside fan and coils).

The bleach is a good idea in the condensate drain piping...it helps kill the bacteria and slime that can build up in there over time, eventually plugging the pipe. If it does your condensate will back up and overflow the drain pan.

Good luck!

PolknPepsi

Polkmaniac wrote:

I don't know squat about ACs or about my particular unit - all I know is it says Lennox on the box outside. My house is only about 5 years old, this thing shouldn't be worn out yet.

A/C is something I do not know a lot about but 5 years a guy wouldnt think it could be bad. The contractor saying you do not take care of you unit sounds like a load of B.S.
Hopefully you can find someone to be honest and helpful.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Well, hopefully the second guy was honest and this cap change will work.

Greg, something in the unit outside supposedly tripped my breaker, which is why I wasn't getting anything out of that unit, not even a fan turning. Could a bad capacitor be doing that? I wonder why this only happens once a year or so?

dragon1952

Polkmaniac wrote:

Greg, something in the unit outside supposedly tripped my breaker, which is why I wasn't getting anything out of that unit, not even a fan turning. Could a bad capacitor be doing that? I wonder why this only happens once a year or so?

My wife puts a piece of old carpet on top of ours to keep leaves and crap out. She has discovered that if you turn the AC on without removing the carpet it will also blow the circuit :rolleyes:

AsSiMiLaTeD

Well I definitely know that's not a problem for us...

gregit

Not sure if a bad cap would cause a direct short or not....maybe Frank will enlighten us.

One thing to look for when you have problems with the outside unit is ants....they love to get inside the contactors and gum up the works. They actually can keep the relay from closing, I've seen it many times. Not sure why they like it there though?

AsSiMiLaTeD

It's because of the coating they use on some of those wires, puts off a sweet smell that attracts ants - been down that road before with my parents AC...

amulford

5 years old? No way should the condensor unit be going. Tell the first guy to f#ck off. What the second guy said is probably more in line. Check out how long it lasts. Think about the wire going to the unit, too. And check the breaker for size (amperage).

The bleach is to kill mold in the condensate drain.

Hey Frank....

Frank Z

I'll do the best I can folks.

When a capacitor fails it can short internally and that will definitely cause your breaker to trip.

Most new condensing units use a dual capacitor, meaning that it serves both the fan and compressor. There are three terminals on this type of cap, Compressor, fan, ad common. Once again a short can cause the breaker to trip.

As far as the 40 rating, this is the microfarad rating. Replacing the 40mf capacitor is a breeze provided the capacitor is discharged before it is removed. A charged cap in a condensing unit will be either a 370 or 440v, and grabbing that puppy will cause you to instantly pay attention to the power of electron flow. DON'T TOUCH IT IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!!!

Any electric motor that uses a capacitor to start the rotation of the rotor (Start Cap) or to increase the motor efficiency (Run Cap) will have the proper capacitor rating on the data plate. Using a slightly larger capacitor is fine, using a smaller capacitor is a no-no, and using a grossly oversized capacitor is not a good practice either. Take a look at the following link for a bit more info if you like. It's kind of basic but gets the point across.

http://www.leeric.lsu.edu/bgbb/7/ecep/hvac/d/d.htm

I really get disgusted when I hear about dirtbag contractors that lie, cheat, and steal from customers, it gives me a bad name. The contractor that told you that your condensing unit is in need of replacement is a dirt-bag. Report his sorry **** to your local BBB, better yet tell everyone you know or pass on the street about 'em.

$300 to replace a capacitor is highway robbery!! Get in touch with Lennox and find out which capacitor is the right one for your unit and have your model and serial number handy because Lennox will be able to tell you if the unit is still under warranty.If it's not under warranty then call around and get a better price. The repair does not need to be performed by a Lennox dealer, any contractor can fix it.

Lennox Web Site

Bleach down the pipe is a good idea. The tech was talking about your condensate drain and they do get some nasty crud growing in them sometimes.


I'm not a big believer of covering condensing units. rain and/or snow will help wash some of the dirt out of the bottom of them. Thse units are designed to be outdoors so the weather isn't going to hurt them. Running a condensor with the air flow blocked will cause and increase in the amount of current draw and that will indeed cause the breaker to trip.

nadams

My brother had the start cap in his 12,000 btu window unit fail this year. $5 and a little skill with a soldering iron and he was back in business. When he tried turning the unit on with the bad cap in there, it would dim all the lights in his house, because it was trying to kick the compressor on without the start cap, which is not actually possible as they draw so much juice at startup (hence the dimmed lights/popping breakers when trying to start it with a faulty cap).

But yeah, listen to Frank, 'cause he sure as hell knows more about it than I do!

janmike

Frank Z, You are the Mike Holmes of AC. Awesome analysis.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Thanks for the info. Not knowing how expensive it should be, I just went ahead and paid the guy to do the work, and looks like I paid too much.

Between this and the carpet work we had to have done this week, 's gettin' expensive...part of home ownership I guess...

amulford

Be's like that sometimes...

The guy probably has a minimum service charge. One guy I used to use was $175 to get in the truck. This guy got you a little, IMO.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Live and learn I guess...

Funny thing this house is actually less than 5 years old and is actually a good, well built and designed house...can't believe I'm already fixing stuff. Obviously it's not as wel built at I thought:)

nadams

The house is fine, it's what you chose to put in it that keeps shittin the bed on you