I'm considering a vintage tube amp

schwarcw

I'm considering using a tube amp to drive my front mains in my HT set up. My front mains are SDA-2s and I would like a little more power when I do two channel listening. My HT amp is a Marrantz SR6200. I like the reciever, it's quiet, warm and sufficent power for most HT listening levels. I think the tube amp may give me a little better sound quality in the HT as well as quality and power in two channel mode. It would also allow my Marrantz to drive the center and two surround speakers a little easier.

I met a guy who use to own a high end audio store and he has some vintage tube amps. He asked me much I wanted to spent so I gave him a low price range ($550 or less) figuring I could always go higher if he didn't have much to offer, and to keep him from gouging me because of my inexperience with tube amps. He offered me the following for my original price range:

"H.H Scott 222c Very Nice 8/10 w/ wood cabinet $425
H H Scott 222b w/ metal cab Nice 7/10 $375
Fisher X-101c New tubes, caps 8/10 $365
Magnavox Clones pr Mono amps w/ quad of 6V6 25wpc Very Nice $475

All of the above are in 100% good working order checked by a tech, all tubes tested etc.

I did soe reasearch on the Scott 222. It has a 25 wpc rating, but it also has a .8% distoration, and a S/N ratio of about 80. I know that the wattage ratings are very different for tube amps so I need to do some listening to get a feel for the "amp"

Does anyone have any experience with these amps and can give me some advice or feedback on your experience?

My concern is that his amps my be valued more for their vintage collectability more than their audio performance.

Thanks!

Dennis Gardner

Those models go for around $200-300$ normally, so it appears that unless these are mint condition models, you may be paying for the collectible nature of the 40 year old tube stuff.


You can say what you want about "tube watts" vs "SS watts", but a watt, is a watt, is a watt. Watts aren't the difference. It how the amps reacts when it runs out of watts...............

Tube amps just tend to reach the limit of their power more gracefully than transistor models, and the distortion from tubes is pleasant instead of harsh in its musicality.

Generalities about tubes that I agree with are...... midrange and vocals on tubes are better than SS. Bass and high extension is generally better with SS amps. This isn't true of higher powered tube models, but dollar-for-dollar, SS amps give more power and value than tubes. Given that, I love tubes for music, but find the best mix for my SDAs to be with a tube preamp and powerfull SS amp to really give the volume levels I like. For low listening levels, I like integrated tube amps.

For your 2 channel needs, you might look into a tube integrated from ASL (Antique Sound Labs) or Jolida. You can find 30-50 watt models that would sound great with your SDAs within you price range on the used market. I really don't think that tubes will really make a noticeable improvement with your HT setup. Digital tracks simply have too much stuff going on throughout the surround channels for the 2 mains to jump out of the mix as really improved by tubes. I run my SDAs and tube preamp while in HT mode, but that is more due to the hassle of getting behind the rack to move cables and I have enough inputs to allow this.



Just my .02,

DG

schwarcw

Thanks for your perspective Dennis. This is just the kind of feedback I'm looking for. I hpe some other Forum members will contribute to my inquiry. Do you use your SDAs for HT? What model do you have?

madmax

I'm a tube guy these days. I went from very high power SS to 50 wpc tubes and see little reason to look back. Some of my previous amps were the Carver Silver 9t mono blocks at 900wpc, some Carver pro amps at 625 wpc and a rack of different Soundcraftsmen amps. I have the Scott amp with EL-84's. It is really too low of a power for anything other than high efficiency speakers. On anything else they sound pretty much like table radios. I also have several JoLida amps. Two of the EL-34 based amps an one of the 6550/KT-88 based amps. 50wpc/60wpc respectively. I also have two Manley mono blocks which use 4 EL-34 tubes each. I think they are 80 wpc or so.

Here is the deal. 50 to 60 wpc tubes are where its at for medium efficency speakers. They work out about the same as 250 to 300 wpc SS amps. Forget that vintage stuff. If you look you can find a used Jolida 302A or 502A (or many other brands of the same type) in a price range of $300 (very uncommon but you can find them with some super luck) to $800 with most of them being around $600.

After getting my first Jolida I truthfully lost all interest in the rest of the SS stuff.

madmax

SCompRacer

Tubes are voltage amplifiers and transistors are current amplifiers. Tubes make their wattage with higher voltage while SS does it with current flow. A tube guy told me that since the audio signal is basically voltage, voltage amplification has better dynamics following complex waveforms versus SS.

I'll find out soon enough since my tube amp is shipped with a tube pre to follow. I have no complaints with my SS Rotel.

Dennis Gardner

schwarcw wrote:

Do you use your SDAs for HT? What model do you have?

I have SDA 1Cs. I use them on either side of my 80 inch wide screen for HT. They really shine for 2 channel music and don't take anything away from my HT experience. I agree with MM on the Jolida suggestion. Buying a Jolida 502 or an ASL 1001 on the used market will give you a taste for tubes without any risk, since you can easily resell them. Watch out though, if you get tubes into your senses, your wallet tends to shrink drastically as the best of the lot are pricey. Look at some of the BAT (Balanced Audio Technology) models, they are designed so beautifully that they could be centerfold spreads.

schwarcw

Dennis/Rich/Madmax,

I appreciate the information. I have no experience with tube amps and I'm trying to learn. Thanks again!

organ

Going vintage will eventually cost you the same as going new. Some parts will need replacing, some will fail. You'll spend a lot of money restoring. I've had my vintage dyna for over 2 years now and I'm still not finished restoring it. Doin it slowly so I can hear the improvements. You'll need to have some understanding of electronic circuits and know how to solder for all this.

Try the Jolida Madmax mentioned above. Antique Sound Lab also makes excellent gear for the money.

Maurice

mhardy6647

The Scotts and the Fisher are very, very good amps. Were it me, I'd be very tempted by the Fisher at $365 with 'new tubes/caps' (shame about the tubes, the originals were probably better, but the caps will add robustness and would have to be done anyway sooner or later).

HBombToo

I have recently converted my HT to my Marantz 8 (~27watts) driving a pair of SDA 2B's. The center is a CRS+ and the surrounds are driven by my Outlaw. I went from an h/k 520 receiver to a Rotel off board DD DAC and a seperate Rotel multi channel preamp.

All I can say is WOW and the Marantz 8 keeps up with the Outlaw with no problems. I perceive no imbalance and as sound moves from left to right or front to back the realism is tremendous. Multi channel music from my Denon 2900 is to die for and I am happier than a kid with a new bike.

HBomb

schwarcw

I saw a couple of Jolida 502s on Audiogon. One went for $475, the other for $750 with a matched pair of quads. Both were sold. I'll keep my eyes and ears open.

Is there a problem with connecting the integrated tube amp from the preouts of my receiver?

I'd like to hear your stuff sometime HBomb. Your system is very similiar to mine. I have the SDA-2s (not A or . I also enjoy the multichannel music.