Speaker Wires ~ I'm a believer!

disneyjoe7 · September 2005

McLoki wrote:

Blue Jeans Cable 12 white is cl3r (in wall) and 10 white is cl2 (plenum grade). Cost is .39 and .57 / foot.

The actual cable is Belden 5000 series; the 10-gauge 5T00UP and the 12-gauge 5000UE

I am currently running the 10 ga. cable and it sounds great. (running through a fireplace plenum)

Michael

Ok, you're opening my eye's thank you McLoki

shack · September 2005

Holydoc wrote:

Oh my. I have been reduced from a "Newbie at Home Theatre" to a "Sheeple"!

Nope. A sheeple is a Baaaaaaaaaaaad thing. You at least tried something different and then formed an opinion. Never too late to check things out with the cable swap. Then you too can become an expert like the rest of us.

F1nut · September 2005

Damn Shack Daddy, GREAT post!!! (the first one)

DJ, in-wall wire? I haven't a clue, don't use it.

disneyjoe7 · September 2005

F1nut,

Monster CL3 14/2 wire doesn't look bad for me not sure if the $ is worth it to change it to something else. Run it to my rear surround speakers along wall board moldings, plan on pulling up and around in attic back down rear wall in the future.

dorokusai · September 2005

There's nothing wrong with using in-wall wire, just get some quality stuff....as in Belden not Monster Cable.

McLoki · September 2005

disneyjoe7 wrote:

F1nut,

Monster CL3 14/2 wire doesn't look bad for me not sure if the $ is worth it to change it to something else. Run it to my rear surround speakers along wall board moldings, plan on pulling up and around in attic back down rear wall in the future.

One thing about the beldin wire from Blue Jeans cable. It is twisted and does not tuck under baseboard like normal speaker cable will. The 10gauge is not very flexible. (for tight turns) I assume the 12 guage will be a little better in this reguard but still nothing like regular speaker cable.

If you run it in wall I am sure it will be great and I do really like the sound, but if you try to tuck it under or behind mouldings it may not work as well. If you have plenty of room (like in crown mouldings) it should be fine.

Michael

disneyjoe7 · September 2005

So it looks like Blue Jeans Cable has an agreement with Belden to make their modified cable. Sort of like Sears Kenmore and who ever agreed to do it their way today thing.

emcclary · September 2005

I would really rather not say who the companies are I sell to since it would be in poor taste to comment on peoples preferences or my customers pricing structures. I can tell you that I sell material to a company for less than $1.00 a foot and they charge over $150.00 for a three foot interconnect made from it. It doesnt matter if you want to spend $50 or $5000.00 dollars on a cable, if you think it improves your sound and you can afford it go for it. The fact remains that the majority of people will hear no difference between same gauge cables using OFHC copper and solid interconnects at any price point. I do like the idea of the cable swap program though. It is probably the best way to try out various cables without spending megabucks to do it. I had to learn through trial and error just like a lot of you have.

bknauss · September 2005

ode wrote:

So then why do some other purists swear by BNC cable, which is relatively thin? Is it the shielding?

BNC cables are only good for signal level stuff, so having relatively small guages isn't a big problem. Most people probably swear by them since BNC connectors offer one of the better contacts out there. It won't fall off, its tight... and that just doesn't sound good in a sick sort of way (must get head out of gutter).

dorokusai · September 2005

Ode - It's BNC connectors, not cable.

BK - I love BNC just for that purpose, secure and solid connection. I wish more gear used it. Locking RCA's are almost as good but still stress the connector a little and sometimes twist.

miner · September 2005

I recently bought a 250' roll of 4 wire, 65 strand (for bi-wiring my B&W N804) OFC, 14 ga wire in-wall certified from www.impactacoustics.com for $95 shipped. Now, to figure how to run the wire past a fireplace. Anyone have any ideas?

gadgetman · September 2005

I am certain that monster cables come in different gauge. They are great speaker wires. My friend told me another wire company makes a better one
I don't know the name or company. You have to use good wires for your system.

bknauss · September 2005

Has anyone ever measured the guage of a Monster Cable speaker wire? I have a feeling the little plastic thing in the middle is counted as part of the size...

shack · September 2005

bknauss wrote:

Has anyone ever measured the guage of a Monster Cable speaker wire? I have a feeling the little plastic thing in the middle is counted as part of the size...

I think I read somewhere M is mostly 16 ga.

gadgetman wrote:

They are great speaker wires. My friend told me another wire company makes a better one;

IMO they are "decent" though overpriced consumer grade speaker wires and cables. Much better that the stuff that comes packaged with a lot of equipment and cables that you can buy at Wal-martand so forth. Their top line stuff is on par with a lot of entry level cables from companies like AudioQuest. It's not great but it's not terrible either. There is better stuff for the price point.

emcclary · September 2005

Monster generally uses 12-16 gauge wire depending on the wire line. Some of them have the gauge listed on the wire jacket others do not.

PolknPepsi · September 2005

I gave up all the monster stuff when I saw the plastic filler in the middle and bought some Axiom bulk very fine stranded #12 gauge, nice flexible stuff.

Pinktulip7 · September 2005

Monster is the best but pricy!!!!!!

McLoki · September 2005

Pinktulip7 wrote:

Monster is the best but pricy!!!!!!

Well, you are half right. It is pricey......

Michael

candyliquor35m · September 2005

I really haven't tried anything else except some cheap speaker wire from home depot and radio shack, but I am now getting great results with 10 guage stranded electrical wire which is $.21 ft. (21 cents a foot) from loews or lowes, I always forget the correct spelling.

heiney9 · September 2005

I'll just jump in here....I used to be on the side of cables not really making much of a difference. But let me briefly explain. Cables make a difference up to a point and really has more to do with your system. A low end reciever w/a low end source hooked to basic speaks with high end cables isn't going to do squat. The sum of the components is not good enough to take advantage of the much more expensive cables. Kind of like putting $1000 worth of tires on a Chevette and then thinking it's going to handle like Corvette.

The higher up the audio chain you move with your entire system the more of a difference higher priced cables may make. It's also a question of synergy with _your_ system. Some cables that sound great in one system may not sound as good in another.

Best thing to do is experiment. I got into the cable swap program and have already heard a difference in cables. The diff was instant and distinct. I'm glad my system and my ears are able to detect the difference. Some of the differences are good and some are not so good. It comes down to what you like and how it integrates in your own system.

If you read the reviews of the cables in the program you will see some of the same characteristics that many have pointed out; to me that may be a particular cables signature. If it is noticed by many who use it, generally you can assume that the cable has that particuliar characteristic. It's still ideal to try it in your own system with your own ears.

Bottom line cables can make a difference but only you can tell for yourself.

H9

P.s. Hasn't all this been said before

sickicw · September 2005

so how would one go about geting into the cable swap program?

Burnzy · September 2005

Just sign yourself up at the Cable Swap thread: Cable Swap Thread

Take a look at whats available and post that you want signed up for what ever cable you may be interested in. I think page 24 has the latest in on what cables are available.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Scott

Fallen Kell · September 2005

The cable war continues...

Well, I would simply say this. Of course you heard a difference going from 22ga to ~16ga. I will go even further to say that you will hear another change from going from 16ga to 10ga.

But after that you will not hear me say much more about cables. Why, because I had enough EE to know that the import thing is the signal. The perfect cable is the cable that outputs the same signal as it receives as input. So why does the change in gauge so much, mainly because the signal is weaker on the output side then on the input side because higher gauge wire has higher resistance. Other things matter like inductance as well since a high inductance cable will cause the signal to be "muddied" (no easy way to discribe it since some of the energy of the signal is being stored in the cable itself and continuously output back into the signal once the wire has hit its peak capacity, thus interjecting noise into the origional signal). Those are the two main things that will make an actual audible change between speaker wires (well, the third would be shielding if you have a lot of EM interference).

This is also why you won't see many EE's buy most of the cables that are out on the market that cost $5+ a foot. Most will opt to make their own cables or buy something that has good measurable characteristics (none of this "cryogenicly treated to allign the crystal structure" type things, because when you get down to it, once it is unfrozen, the crystal structure starts to flow again on its own because the material's atoms will continue to flow and move again). Measure the signal output and compair against the signal input. Do a scientific test. That will tell you what is the best cable, not a subjective listening test. Speaker wire should not be used to "color" the sound. Yes, some people will like the sound of some wire over others because of the "coloring" that is occuring, but this is no different then changing settings on an eq.

heiney9 · September 2005

Fallen Kell wrote:

The perfect cable is the cable that outputs the same signal as it receives as input.

No such thing

Fallen Kell wrote:

Do a scientific test. That will tell you what is the best cable, not a subjective listening test.

Great idea if you want to stare at a spec sheet. If you want to actually listen to the signal use your ears to determine.

H9

shack · September 2005

Scientific testing and statistical analysis has determined that 98.371% (with a 1.22% margin of error) of all EEs are totally tone deaf and wouldn't know good sound if it bit them in the **** (the margin of error is slightly higher for this). That's a FACT!

dorokusai · September 2005

EE's make me giggle.

heiney9 · September 2005

dorokusai wrote:

EE's make me giggle.

**ggg..ggg....ggg** me too!

H9

F1nut · September 2005

shack wrote:

Scientific testing and statistical analysis has determined that 98.371% (with a 1.22% margin of error) of all EEs are totally tone deaf and wouldn't know good sound if it bit them in the **** (the margin of error is slightly higher for this). That's a FACT!

heiney9 · September 2005

shack wrote:

Scientific testing and statistical analysis has determined that 98.371% (with a 1.22% margin of error) of all EEs are totally tone deaf and wouldn't know good sound if it bit them in the **** (the margin of error is slightly higher for this). That's a FACT!

I hear ya...er...um...I mean I know what you're saying.

H9

Fallen Kell · September 2005

heiney9 wrote:

No such thing

Great idea if you want to stare at a spec sheet. If you want to actually listen to the signal use your ears to determine.

H9

Yes, I agree with you that there is no such cable in the analog world. But I also completely and utterly disagree with you about listening to the "cable". I bought the "music" to listen to. I bought the CD-player/turn table/cassette player/DVD-A player/SACD player/ad. infinitum to as "perfectly as can be done" read the "signal" from some form of medium to then get sent to be amplified (with the most "perfect" amplifier affordable) to the "most perfect" speakers affordable to reproduce the "SIGNAL" in its "PURE FORM". NOT have that signal transformed at some point in the way during the transmission process.

If you like listening to that, fine, but don't call yourself an audiofile in any sense of the word. Yes, you might like good music, and good sound. But the whole idea in a system is to reproduce the sound "as recorded", and how can you do that when you have a cable that changes any signal that goes into it unless you then compensate for that change somewhere else first?

Yes, there is no perfect cable; yes, there is no perfect speaker; yes, there is no perfect amplifier; yes, there is no perfect transport; yes, there is no perfect media. But everything we do in this hobby strives for that "perfectness". The laws of physics, electrical properties, and signals govern here. Scientifically measured properties are all that are needed to show what cable is in fact the "most perfect". You should do some research and a few blind tests with a bunch of cables, but the problem with your blind listening tests is the fact that you can't A/B that test with the "actual performance", and all you have to go on is what you percieve the performance "should" have sounded like and not how it "actually" was.

Speaker Wires ~ I'm a believer!

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