Upgrading System ~ Thanks for all the Advice

Holydoc

First off let me say hello and thank you for all your wonderful helpful posts. Though I never asked for advice straight out (this is my first post), I was able to read through these posts and pick out what I felt would be a great system.

My current purchases:
RTi-12 for Left and Right Speakers
CSi5 for center speaker
FXi3 for surround and back Speakers

I also had a 5 year old 10in Polk subwoofer and an Onkyo TX-N901 receiver.

I just wanted to say the system sounds great, and I am definitely hearing things in my movies that I did not even know existed. Most of that is due to the posts made on this board by all of you experts.

Thanks again and you will definitely be hearing from me in the very near future.

Joey_V

RTi12 is a monster of a speaker... enjoy it! You might need a better amp for them in the future if you want to tap into its potential.

landry_p2000

Whoa! :eek: RTi12s! Man, you will be needing a couple of amps to get those babies talking the way they should. @ 500w per speaker, you need atleast (250wx2) to get those right. It is a good thing you didn't do like I did, and get a receiver with no pre outs to add amps later. I am telling you what I was told when I jumped in the water of home audio. That 901 will do, but ask the other guys, and they will tell you to go with the amps. Nice first system, and welcome aboard.

Landry

2+2

That's wonderful that you did a lot of lurking and got some good advice....those 12s are brutes! Welcome! What was your old speakers?

Holydoc

Ok 2+2, this is so you will know how much of a newbie I really am at all this. My replaced speakers were:

Infinity SM-112 (Left and Right)
PolkAudio CS245 (Center)
PolkAudion PSW150 (Subwoofer ~ Still have)
Advent Bookshelf (Surround)
Bose 4001 (Rear)


The whole story is... remember you asked for it!

Is that I went to Tweeters because I was tired of not getting the effect of surround around like I wanted. I listened to multiple surround speakers and narrowed it down to a Sapphire and the FXi3's. After listening to Eric Clapton Unplugged, the FXi3's won hands down. The concern at Tweeters was that the "timbre" of the speakers may not match my Infinities and thus causing more problems. I went ahead and bought 4 FXi3's and decided I would learn a bit more about stereo systems.

When I registered the FXi3's online, I noticed the forum, so I went snooping. Learning what and why timbre was important, I ran the amp tests on my speakers and noticed a distinct difference between the Polks and the Infinities. I balanced, by ear, the sound coming from the other speakers and made speaker placement a balance of esthetics and utility (utility had never been in the equation before). Difference between night and day.

Deciding to replace the Infinities with more Polks (after getting hooked on this forum by you guys), I purchased the CSi5 and RTi12's from Crutchfield. CSi5 was purchased because I was never satisfied with the dialogue coming from the stereo for movies and the RTi12's were purchased because I decided to go ahead and match the monster center with the best mid-Polk towers available.

So... basically I just sit and smile while I watch movies on my system now. I am just wondering how long it will be before I get so addicted to this new hobby, that I start replacing the other components.

cfrizz

Welcome Holydoc, and congrats on a great system! Don't worry you will be replacing other stuff real soon!!!

2+2

Nahh.....enjoy your system as long as you can...I believe your receiver is a brute although as noted above by others, you may want to consider a separate amp in the future....that is one mean speaker the 12s...they probably put out more bass than your sub...;)

Frank Z

Congrats on the upgrade!
Now you need to get an SPL Meter from Radio Shack and calibrate the system. You'll be even more impressed!

Holydoc

FrankZ,

Please tell me more about this meter. How do I use it to set up my speakers properly?

Besides the receiver test tones (I assume this is for loudness and timbre), I also used the THX Optimizer that is packaged with the movie, "The Incredibles". This Optimizer made me make one change and that was to switch the terminals that my speaker wires were hooked to on the right surround. That test was called the In-Sync, out-of-Sync test. You basically stand between two or more speakers playing. If you hear dispersed sound waves, the test should be on "out-of-Sync" if you hear the sound of the speakers coming from dead center, the test should be on "In-Sync". If it is just opposite, the test tells you which speaker to flip terminals on. Though I was surprised about having to do this (I know I connected the speaker wires correctly), I did feel like I accomplished something since I got the sound to follow the tests.

okiepolkie

You will want to get this SPL meter from Radio Shack. Then, to truly get your system sounding its best, get the AVIA guide to home theater DVD from ebay. It will be a lot more in depth and more accruate than the THX one on the Disney discs.

If you would like to know a little more about calibration, do a search on the forum for "calibration." There is a lot of good information about what needs to be done and how to do it.

Enjoy your new upgrades.

Zach

aaharvel

you know something I saw the RTI12's side by side with some LSI25's. The 12's are even bigger than they were! Awesome looking speaker.

Holydoc

Zach,

I went to Radio Shack and bought the SPL meter. It is amazing how different the SPL registered as opposed to my ears. What I thought was fairly close volume between speakers, wasn't even close.

I used the stereo test tones (seem to be set to 80db) to adjust each speaker to 80db (as close as possible). Of course the subwoofer was the exception. Not sure how to adjust that correctly. Seems to be lots of variation with it.

The system is sounding so great! Realizing that this system is set-up in a Great Room that is open to the dining room and kitchen, it is truly amazing how nice the surround around sounds.

Thank you for the advice!

GaryZ06

Awesome setup.I pretty much have the same except for the rears.......get some more power and watch them really wake up.

aaharvel

RTI12's- why not 2 Outlaw Monoblocks? heheheh.....

GaryZ06

aaharvel wrote:

RTI12's- why not 2 Outlaw Monoblocks? heheheh.....

You mean 3 Outlaw Monoblocks for the front 3 channels

aaharvel

screw it. I say buy 7 of 'em! Give those f/x's a good kick in tha' ****!

in all seriousness, if you want cheap power from a respected brand- I suggest going to Ebay and picking up a pre-owned Adcom. They're abundant.
Made a huge difference with my system. And their watts are real, friend.

GaryZ06

aaharvel wrote:

screw it. I say buy 7 of 'em! Give those f/x's a good kick in tha' ****!

Holydoc

Ok...here is where I am going to look stupid again.

Why do I need more power for these speakers if they already blow my doors down if I turn them up? What advantage is hooking up an auxilary amp to run these speakers?

If you think I should get an amp, then what power (i.e., 100watt, 200watt, etc) should I purchase since these speakers take 500watt? Should the amp just run the two front speakers, the three front speakers, or all the speakers?

Thanks in advance!

2+2

well...a little civic will get you going to 80mph....so will a porsche....just differently....
I would get at least a 200watt for your rti12s...but that's just me. If your primary use is HT, I suppose having all 3 front ch. driven with same power is good....no hurry...just hang around, enjoy your system and buy an amp when the upgraditis starts to itch.....;)

danger boy

some people buy an external amp for their mains/fronts and let the receiver power the center and surrounds. some people like to get external amps for all channels.. that's the route i went. I have a two channel 125wpc amp for the fronts and 3 mono block amps for the center, left and right surround.. each 125wpc.

external amps make your speakers sound better.. and takes the power load off your receiver. If your receiver already has 100 watts per channel.. think how much power it draws down to when it's driving 4 or more speakers? fronts take more power to run than center and rear surrounds.

Mike Reeter

Holydoc,I have our 12's bi-amped with 200 wpc powering the lower end (woofers) and 125 wpc driving the upper end (mids/tweets)...

Also have 200 wpc driving the CSi5...The AVR drives the side and rear surrounds...The extra power for the front three speakers makes a huge difference on the impact of a good DVD soundtrack...

Frank Z

Upgrading from a receiver to a seperate amp(s) is a slippery slope. Yes the sound quality may improve or it may not. It's really up to the individual listener to decide. If you're seriously considering it, try to audition the amp(s) in you're home. Some retailers will allow you to borrow equipment for just that purpose. Outlaw gear is great and they have a fantastic return policy. You'll be out of pocket for the shipping though, but if you like what you hear...well there's really no problem then.

To my ears there was noticeable improvement in sound quality when I made the jump to seperates but that doesn't mean you'll hear the same difference. Don't rush out and buy because it might make a difference. Spend some time with what you have and learn what your systems strengths and weaknesses are, then you'll be better equipped to make the proper choices.

Joey_V

Holydoc wrote:

Ok...here is where I am going to look stupid again.

Why do I need more power for these speakers if they already blow my doors down if I turn them up? What advantage is hooking up an auxilary amp to run these speakers?

If you think I should get an amp, then what power (i.e., 100watt, 200watt, etc) should I purchase since these speakers take 500watt? Should the amp just run the two front speakers, the three front speakers, or all the speakers?

Thanks in advance!

Amps that provide high current generally result in better imaging, better focus on vocals, tighter bass (by tighter I mean it hits you at a more precise spot rather than over a larger spot i.e. looser), better midrange reproduction hence a more balanced sound.

The RTi12 will benefit from an amp like a Rotel or Parasound for sure... no questions about it IMO.

reeltrouble1

Doc,

Please let me second Frank, you have a great receiver it has high current so dont worry. Not to say the advice for separates is bad or an extra amp wouldnt be grand, heck I did it. Just come to understand what you have, believe me, for a "newbie" you have some great stuff, if anything you may need a new sub next. The Rat Shack meter set to slow C-weighting if I remember right needs a 6db correction for the sub. Cant really say if the 150 can handle that volume level as I am not familiar with it. Set the volume on the back about half-way and use the Onk trim levels like you did with the rest of the speaker, if the 150 starts making popping sounds after you calibrate turn it down immediately as it is clipping.

RT1

Holydoc

RT1,

I balanced the sub within a range. In other words it averaged about 80db but would bounce around on occassions. Thanks for your words of encouragement.


Everyone,

You guys are great! Awesome advice and more knowledge about stereo systems than I could ever hope to achieve!

I think I will just settle down a little bit and play with what I have. Also if I slow down now, I will hopefully be able to replace the 36" tube TV with a 50" Plasma by Christmas. That will definitely finish off the first cut at the system.

THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE!

aaharvel

cfrizz wrote:

You're not drunk enough if you realize you are drunk, and write that garbage. It was totally unnecessary & offensive!
QUOTE]

I apologize.

Tomasz

Sorry guys, I have just removed the post. Those kinds of post are not appropriate here, regardless if the words are "bleeped" out or not.

Andrew please look at the Forum Rules especially Rule #4.