The Fair Tax Book!!!

LiquidSound

Guys!! This book is amazing. A MUST read for anyone who has paid taxes in their life...
I can't put it down. I'm simply astonished at how much time/money/life is wasted through our current tax system. What's great is that this isn't a Republican, Democrat, Libertarian..or any politically affiliated concept. It's a book for everyone.
I'll post excerpts later once I can put this thing down for more than five minutes.

EDIT: This is NOT a "Flat Tax". Questions? www.fairtax.org Or call Neal Boortz @ 1 877 310 2100 8:30 am to 1 pm weekdays. Oh, and READ THE BOOK!!!

Here's the actual bill. Get your read on. H.R. 25 The Fair Tax Bill

aaharvel

Hey thanks i'll check it out. I hope it doesn't champion 'Flat' Taxes or Trickle Down b/c imo that doesn't work.

thanks for the recommendation.

LiquidSound

No flat trickles in this one. It's a consumption based tax. It's simple. Pay as you buy on new products. Not used. You keep all of your paycheck, also getting a 'prebate' for what you'd spend on neccessities at the beginning of each month. No more IRS..April 15th will be just another spring day. :cool:

MacLeod

Yup! A national retail tax and abolish the income tax. A great idea.

Dont know if it will ever pass but I support it.

beardog03

never happen...

they make too much off of me to give it up..!!

Shizelbs

Will never happen. Too logical and just.

aaharvel

LiquidSound wrote:

No flat trickles in this one. It's a consumption based tax. It's simple. Pay as you buy on new products. Not used. You keep all of your paycheck, also getting a 'prebate' for what you'd spend on neccessities at the beginning of each month. No more IRS..April 15th will be just another spring day. :cool:

that sounds interesting. I'm going to the library and check it out today. Does the author go on to explain if these 'consumption' consumer taxes are enough to pay for public schools, Federal College Loan programs, roads/transportation, social security, medicare, welfare-based needs, and other causes/state programs for the common good? and most importantly does he mention if it's possible to work the system by just buying pre-owned goods? A-LA E-bay, where there will be no taxes since they aren't 'NEW' products?

i'm not astonished at all of how much $ gets wasted by the government. Government spending and responsibility is considered by many an Oxymoron, regardless of political affil.

PolkThug

My co-worker was raving about this book, might have to check it out.

PolkThug

aaharvel wrote:

and most importantly does he mention if it's possible to work the system by just buying pre-owned goods? A-LA E-bay, where there will be no taxes since they aren't 'NEW' products?

I think the corporation pays the tax first and must transfer that cost down to the consumer, so before the good got to Ebay, the extra tax was already paid.

(I asked the same question)

aaharvel

Neal Boortz's 'Fair Tax Book'.

ok i got it and starting it tonight.

Spawndn72

I wonder how many people's jobs would be impacted by the income tax being abolished. Not only all the people that the IRS employes, but all the accountants, all the tax prep people, etc. Shoot, I bet the post office would take a massive hit on their April 15th revenue.

ohskigod

I cant see how the IRS would be completly abolished. The system still depends onpeople sending money, in this case, the business/corps collecting the sales tax (or prepaying it?) either way, they have to remit it in some fassion, and as long as peopleor business have to pay taxes in any structure, there are some that are going to try to get around it, or flat out not pay it. more will flat out not pay it if there is absolutly no enforcement. Take from someone who works in tax enforcement (on the state level)

TroyD

Dangerously close to a political topic.....

The problem is twofold.....one, any sort of flat tax is regressive. Meaning, the lower income brackets will pay a higher percentage of thier income as tax, it will hit lower incomes in the pocket book harder. Two, with a sales tax, any tax increase (it would have to go up in increments of one cent) would be much higher in terms of percentage. For example, if you start off with a 5 percent sales tax and increase it to 6 cents next year, that's a 20% tax increase. Don't think for a second that the rate will ever go down or stay the same. If the gov't takes a dollar in, it will spend that dollar and next year will want THAT dollar and an additional ten cents.

A flat income tax, I would support but we will NEVER see it for primarily the first reason I gave.

BDT

ND13

I would accept a federal sales tax paid only on what I consume. The problem is that there would have to be exceptions for food, clothing and shelter, not luxury items but necessities would have to be tax free and medicine, also. There would be limits of course. That would be fair, but I would have to assume that there would still have to be a flat income tax of 2-3%,also. Therefore the IRS would never go away. I think the fed sales tax would work out better than a flat income tax rate, mainly because to many of the wealthy and clever would still be able to find loopholes.

aaharvel

TroyD wrote:

Dangerously close to a political topic.....A flat income tax, I would support but we will NEVER see it for primarily the first reason I gave.
BDT

your post was a great explanation Troy and I don't think it's close to political talk. As long as we all keep our trap shut about political affil.

The first reason you gave is why I do not support the FLAT tax and trickle down economics in general. It polarizes the classes and in the end tears the middle class apart. More in the middle class will fall downward than rise upward for the very reason that there are more poor people in the lower/working class than in the upper class.

again, good explanation of how taxes work.

jdhdiggs

As previously stated, a national sales tax would hammer the lower middle class and the super rich would have a much decreased burdon.

What I would support is a simplified tax code of say three brackets, <36K pay 0, <150 pay 15% everything above 150 pays 40% That might actually have a shot at passing. Flat tax or national sales tax will never have a shot.

aaharvel

jdhdiggs wrote:

As previously stated, a national sales tax would hammer the lower middle class and the super rich would have a much decreased burdon.

What I would support is a simplified tax code of say three brackets, <36K pay 0, <150 pay 15% everything above 150 pays 40% That might actually have a shot at passing. Flat tax or national sales tax will never have a shot.

good thing i make only $149,999.99 :rolleyes:

Mike682

Taxes are out of control. Basically everything is taxed around here.

Get paid, get taxed
Buy something, get taxed
Own a house/property, get taxed
Driving? Ok, pay some tolls
Get a service done, pay tax

Property tax in my area ranges from $8k-12k/yr avg for a 50' x 100' property. Much higher if you have a decent yard or have property on the water. Where is all this money going?????

unc2701

TroyD wrote:

Two, with a sales tax, any tax increase (it would have to go up in increments of one cent) would be much higher in terms of percentage. For example, if you start off with a 5 percent sales tax and increase it to 6 cents next year, that's a 20% tax increase...

Uhhh.. not really. I can't remember what the sales tax in NC is right now, but it used to be 7.5%. Point being that they could make the rate 7.128547%- you just round it after you figure out the total.

TroyD

Don't misunderstand me, I am a BIG believer in trickle down economics. We are talking about two different things. Trickle down economics means if you give the wealthy the incentive to spend, ie lower taxes, they will spend and the lower classes benefit from that in the form of jobs etc. I can't think of too many poor people who ever offered me a job, you know?

Taxing the **** out of luxury items has already been tried and it doesn't work. Remember the exorbitant tax place upon yachts and so forth? Know who took it in the shorts? That's right, the poor **** building, selling and maintaining the boats because people quit buying them.

BDT

aaharvel

Mike682 wrote:

Taxes are out of control. Basically everything is taxed around here. Where is all this money going?????

Hey what's up Mike. Hopefully your tax money goes to aid public schools, roads/transporation duties, garbage service, public buildings such as libraries, museums, public grants and loans for college, service programs for the handicapped, medicare, medicaid, homeless shelters, first aid shelters, hospitals, financial assistance for poor and working class such as unemployment.

Everybody hates taxes. That's because all you see is your own wallet when you think about it. Without taxes, all of the above would cease to exist. I'm a simple college student with not alot of money and i'm ready to do my part by paying taxes to make the small things that we don't notice on a day to day basis- things that most countries can only dream of having to available to the next generation.

aaharvel

unc2701 wrote:

Uhhh.. not really. I can't remember what the sales tax in NC is right now, but it used to be 7.5%. Point being that they could make the rate 7.128547%- you just round it after you figure out the total.

it used to be 6.5%. it raised to 7% 2years ago.

aaharvel

I've never seen a case of Trickle down economics trickle all the way down to the working class, only to the middle and upper middle classes. Anyone remember the 80's?

(edit) When I say I've never seen a case: that's not to say that they don't exist. I'm just unaware of any that's all.

TroyD

unc2701 wrote:

Uhhh.. not really. I can't remember what the sales tax in NC is right now, but it used to be 7.5%. Point being that they could make the rate 7.128547%- you just round it after you figure out the total.

Uhhh...really.

Percentage wise, it's still a large hike. Two, if you round it, what's the difference? If you owe .51 dollars, you are still paying the extra penny. It's not going to work in your favor. I'd LOVE to see the hassle involved trying to get reimbursed the difference.

BDT

TroyD

EVERYONE did better in the 1980's.

Look it up.

BDT

aaharvel

TroyD wrote:

EVERYONE did better in the 1980's.

Look it up.

BDT

ok I will. Give me some specifics and I'll be glad to. Saying everyone did better in the 80's is kinda vague.

TroyD

OK, find me an income bracket that LOST ground in the 1980's.

Good luck, because there isn't one.

BDT

jdhdiggs

aaharvel wrote:

good thing i make only $149,999.99 :rolleyes:

Again, no point, just conjecture, thanks for the input. Are you complaining that it's too high? too low?

unc2701

TroyD wrote:

Percentage wise, it's still a large hike. Two, if you round it, what's the difference? If you owe .51 dollars, you are still paying the extra penny. It's not going to work in your favor. I'd LOVE to see the hassle involved trying to get reimbursed the difference.

1)Percentage wise, it's what ever size hike they want to make it. Let say the tax rate is 7%.. they want to hike it by 5%... it becomes 7.35%.

2)They ALREADY round it. Half the time it goes up, half the time if goes down. In the long run you break even.

aaharvel

How about 1982 and ESPECIALLY 1987. The 2nd largest recession to hit since the Great Depression?

The government systematically slashed and burned government regulations, but individual worker productivity grew no faster in the 80s than it had during the late 70s (about 1 percent for both periods).

I think what you are referring to us is what has been known as the "Fat 7Years" that started in 1981. However, the 1981 tax cuts came before the 1982 recession. Now admittedly after the recession, the economy took off. ushered in The money supply grew extremely fat in late 1982, thus providing the econmic growth. Then, in 1987- the 2nd worst drop since the Great Depression of the Dow- 508 points- the economy didn't drop- it flatlined.

Tax cuts were supposed to have spurred economic recovery by relieving the load of tax dollars of entrepreneurs and allowing them to invest them in greater productivity and jobs. However, such greater investment never occurred. The rich simply pocketed the savings, because investment fell during the 80s: and as a result job growth as well. And when I say job growth- I mean GOOD job growth. Not service industry job growth- which btw expanded between the 80's more than any other decade of the 20th century.

Private investments also fell in the 1980's compared to the 1970's.

1970 - 1979 18.6%
1980 - 1992 17.4

In the 1980's, the "misery index" (also known as unemployment plus inflation) -- increased 20 percent for the first time since World War II. Admittedly, alot of that blame should be placed on the 70's and the 2 oil crisis'- the last one being in 1979.

Finally, the average unemployment rate from 1980-1989 was 7.4%. We're now at 5.1%.

My sources are the U.S. Office of Management & Budget and the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

All i'm saying is ask the average American what they thought of the 1980's economy. I guarantee you they won't be smiling.

(edit) I thought ol' Troy was comparing the 80's to ANY time- be it 70's or even the 90's. Yes, the 80's were better for everyone compared to the 70's- but they both still sucked **** for the average American.

aaharvel

jdhdiggs wrote:

Again, no point, just conjecture, thanks for the input. Are you complaining that it's too high? too low?

to be honest with you, i don't really know.