(My) Website Questions

audiobliss

I've been playing around with HTML for learning for the last year or more. However, I've only really gotten serious this last week. We left Monday and came back Thursday. During that time, whenever we were in the car, or back at the hotel room, I was working on a website. In case anyone is familiar with the book, I went through (this last week) HTML: your visual blueprint for designing effective Web pages..

One thing I've always wanted to do with my sites is have all my navigational links on the left side. This last week I learned how to use frames to accomplish that. Is there a way to do it without using frames? How's the most efficient way to do this using frames? I'm pretty sure the way I have it set-up isn't very efficient, as I have so many pages for each 'page', and the load time isn't very fast. However, the speed may be due to the free web hosting at geocities.

I have each page broken into two horizontal frames, and the bottom one broken into two vertical frames. I coudln't see another way to do it without being just extraordinarily complex, so I have each link's (in the left navigational frame) target set to "_top" so that it just replaces the whole page. Then, I have the next page broken into the three frames again. This way, it has to load everything everytime you click on a link. I know this isn't very efficient. However, if I have the target set as "MainPage" (what I've named the biggest frame), I'm not sure exactly how that'll work. From starting at the index page, if I click on a link, it'll just replace the MainPage frame. Thus, I'll always have the other two frames present. However, what if someone bookmarks one of the other pages? When they come back to that, will the other frames be there since I don't have the frames set-up for that particular page?

I sure hope someone can understand what it is I'm trying to say. I'd really appreciate any comments and suggestions (even unrelated to this problem).


The table was fun to do. Like I said, this was for learning, so there's not a lot content. And there's not practical value to the table, it's just the only thing I could think of to make a table of. The form was also very interesting. Which leads me to another problem.

Since I'm not at all familiar with JavaScript or CGI (yet), I have the form set-up to send me the information via e-mail. (ACTION="mailto:carmike692000@yahoo.com") Someone filled out the form and submitted it, and then I filled it out and submitted it. I never got the first one, and then the e-mail I got from when I filled it out was blank. From the book I gathered that it was going to e-mail me "FORM NAME=VALUE". However, the e-mail I got was blank.

Also, once you submit the completed form, the site doesn't do anything. How would I have it re-direct you to my main page after submitting it? The book didn't address that at all.


Thanks very much for any and all help!!!

Here's my site:
www.geocities.com/carmike692000

SCompRacer

I take my hat off to you for learning that stuff. I know little HTML code and depend on MS Front Page or Dreamweaver to make a page or web site.

audiobliss

Help...please..... .......

AsSiMiLaTeD

The way you have it set up now is inefficient, because you're loading the full frameset every time you clock a link - this is because you have your link targets set to _top.

You need to set it up so that your top and bottom frames are static (the menu section) and when you click links in that menu section it just opens the new page in the main window.

So with you page, the top page would be static, and the left page would be static, and when you click on links in the left, they'll open up in the main window. To accomplish this, you'll need change the target on your links from _top to _main - this should keep your two other pages static and just pull the new page into your main window, if you have your frames set up correctly.

Take a look at my website (still under construction) for an example, although I'm using only two frames, but you get the idea - when you click a link at the top, just the main page refreshes, not the whole frameset...

www.logixdesigns.com

Hope that helps

audiobliss

Thanks! But, do I need to add both frames to all the pages in my site? Or will the two static frames be there for all the pages? I know they'll be there if my visitor comes from the index page, but what if he bookmarks a separate page; will the static frames still be there?

Thanks!

AsSiMiLaTeD

No - adding all the frames to all your pages is gonna slow your site down - the two static frames will be there for all pages. Do some testing and you'll see what I'm talking about. Create a page called test, just a regular page no frames, and put some text or pictures or whatever on it. Then open up your Navigation.htm page and add a link to that menu there, hyperlink that to the test page, set target to _main. Then up your your main index page, click that link, and the test page you created should pop up in the main window...

It depends on how he bookmarks it. If he uses the menu at the top of the screen to 'add to favorites' then yes he'll see the whole frameset. But if he right clicks on the screen, the specific page that he right clicks on will be bookmarked...

audiobliss

Ok, thanks. I think I follow that. Well, I'll go through and update things to see if I can make it more efficient.

By the way, your website looks really nice! Clean, simple, and professional!

Thanks!

audiobliss

Ok, so I just changed the target for the navigational links to "Content", which is what I named the main frame in the index page. It's amazing how much faster it is, even with such a small change as that. Like you said, if they go to the menu bar and bookmark any of the pages, it actually bookmarks the index page. However, if they right click on a section and bookmark it, it bookmarks that individual frame. I would like to find if there's a way to have it efficient like it is now, and yet so that it bookmarks the individual page they're on. That would be pretty nice.

Thanks!

So, now is anybody proficient with forms? How come mine won't seem to e-mail me the results correctly?

AsSiMiLaTeD

What are you scripting your form in? The one on my site is a simple php script.

Note, you can't use html alone to get a form to work, you have to use some type of scripting language like php or a form of cgi. You can build the form itself with HTML, but you can't make it do anything without a sripting language.

I'd start by contacting your web host and see what languages they support. If they do PHP, I'll send you the script and html source for the form on my site and you can play with it...

petrym

Audiobliss,
I use CSS on my website http://www.pathfinderchorus.org/ This design uses header, footer and left column menu. You can view the CSS class definitions directly http://www.pathfinderchorus.org/path.css

Check out the source html (browser menu View --> Source) to see how the classes are invoked.
Michael
Webdude

AsSiMiLaTeD

CSS is always a good way to get things done, but it can be a bit involved especially for someone new to html...

One main advantage that CSS has over framesets is that some people's browsers don't always display frame well - though this is less of an issue today than it was a few years ago...

I use CSS for the background colors, text, scroll bars, etc on my site.

audiobliss

CSS being a stylesheet? I have a stylesheet defining some values for <CENTER>, my header tags, horizontal rules, unordered lists, etc. I can use a stylesheet to 'empower' my HTML-scripted form?

I'll check out the forms on y'all's websites here in a minute and see what I can learn.

Thanks!

audiobliss

Haha!! I just realized my 'center' tag centered everything in my above post. Didn't know regular HTML tags would work here. Hmm...

AsSiMiLaTeD

you won't be able to learn much from the form on my site without the php source code, so I'll help you out here.

Here's the PHP script that actually does everything:

<?
$toAddress = "danny.scarbrough@logixdesigns.com"; //recipient of the form results
$subject = "Feedback Received from Site"; //text in the Subject field of the mail
$mailHeader = "From: $name"; //text in the From field of the mail
$Confirm = "http://www.logixdesigns.com/confirm.htm";

//Fills an array of the variable $MailBody with data received from different fields on the form

$MailBody = "Visitor's name : $name\n";

$MailBody .= "Visitor's Number : $phonenumber\n";

$MailBody .= "Visitor's Email Address : $email\n";

$MailBody .= "Visitor Comments : $comments\n";

//Routine to send message

mail($toAddress, $subject, $MailBody, $mailHeader );
Header ("Location: $Confirm ");

?>

And here's the html source for the form fields on my contact page:

EDIT - well damn I can's paste it here because the forum automatically converts it into html and shows the forms fields, kinda neat, but useless in this situation. - Oh well, you can always view the source on my contact page, what you're looking for is everything inside the [form] tags...

Like I said, if PHP is an option for you, it's probably your best option.

if you're using FrontPage and your web host runs FrontPage extensions, you can also use the form feature in FrontPage to do everything for you - but I don't like it much myself.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Deleted

petrym

Polkmaniac,
You can paste HTML by selecting the "<>" (html) in the advanced editing header.

Example:
[HTML]
.feedback {
font-size: 0.8em;
color:#000000;
}

<div align="center">
<span class="feedback">
<!-- copyright -->
<br>&copy Copyright 2005
</span>
</div>
[/HTML]

audiobliss

Sorry I haven't responded in a while, guys. I just had my wisdom teeth out yesterday, and I've just been zapped all of a sudden. I gotta go to bed. I'll look at it all tomorrow, though.

Thanks for all the info!

TheReaper

They are correct above, that you should use a server to process your mail form. GeoCities should provide something, check their user help. Using a mailto action in a form is unpredictable, as it relies on how a persons pc is set up, for wether it works or not.

Using tables is a way to layout a page. If you go to this page: http://www.geocities.com/jeffreyschimpf/rptable2.htm . It gives an introduction on using tables for layouts. By putting a table in a cell of another table, and so forth, you can get a fairly complex layout.

Here are some sample pages that use tables for layouts (view the source):

http://home.att.net/~knockknockknock/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/jeffreyschimpf/express.htm
http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Facility/1494/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/jeffreyschimpf/tvscrap.htm
http://www.geocities.com/jeffreyschimpf/mylinks.htm

PS. Those are really old pages, I haven't done any public work in several years.

AsSiMiLaTeD

petrym wrote:

Polkmaniac,
You can paste HTML by selecting the "<>" (html) in the advanced editing header.

Ah, cool deal.

audiobliss, here's the HTML for that form then:

[HTML]<form name="form1" method="post" action="form.php">
<p align="center">Your Name : <input type="text" name="name"></p>
<p align="center">Phone Number : <input type="text" name="phonenumber"></p>
<p align="center">Email Address : <input type="text" name="email"></p>
<p align="center">Questions / Comments:</p>
<p align="center"> <textarea name="comments" cols="80" rows="10"></textarea></p>
<p align="center"> <input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Submit">
</p>
</form>[/HTML]

audiobliss

Ok, I'm going to see if I can't get all this stuff straightened out in my mind today. So you're saying that stylesheets, like I use to define values for my HTML tags (such as center, body, link, UL, etc.), can also break my page up into sections like frames will? That's interesting.

I can also use stylesheets for my form? Hmm..this is interesting....

I'm going to read about forms in HTML Goodies by Joe Burns. Good book...(I hope..).

petrym

Yes. There's one line in the head that calls the style sheet:
[HTML]<LINK HREF="style.css" REL="stylesheet" TYPE="text/css">[/HTML]
Assuming of course your file name is "style.css" and is in the same directory as your html pages.

Here are the definitions for the Pathfinder Chorus website. You'll see that you can define the layout in a single file and then change that file and all your pages are changed instead of changing each page separately.

[HTML]
/* Layout Stylesheet */

body {
margin:20px; /* This gives a 20 pixel margin around the outside */
background:#A0A0A0;
color: #333333;
text-align:center;
padding:0;
}

#outer {
text-align:left;
border:1px solid #000000;
width:650px; /* This gives the main text area it's size */
margin:auto;
}

#hdr {
height: 100px; /* Header is 100 pixels tall ,*/
/* change to fit your graphics */
background: #FFF;
color: #333;
border: solid black;
border-width: 0px 0 1px 0; /* black border only on the bottom */
margin: 0;
}

#bodyblock {
position:relative;
background: #FFF;
color: #333333;
width:650px; /* The main body area width definition, */
/* includes left menu and main text area */
padding:0;
}

#menu {
float:left;
background:#FFF;
color: #333;
width:145px; /* Left menu area */
}

#main {
width:495px; /* Main text area, note that "#menu" and "#main" */
/* width totals are 10 pixels less than the
/* "#bodyblock" definition, */
/* this prevents wrapping problems*/
background:#ffffff;
color: #333333;
border:solid #000000;
border-width:0 0 0 0px;
text-align:left;
}

#ftr {
height:100px; /* footer height */
background:#FFF;
color: #333;
}
[/HTML]

Play around with code and have fun!

Edited to prevent horizontal code scrolling.

audiobliss

Ok, thanks for all the help folks. Sorry I've not taken advantage of it more today. Today's been a total waste. I was figuring on doing a lot with this today, but I've just been zonked all day. I was hoping this would be like Friday, when I only slept for four hours and did a lot of this, but I've just been beat today. I'm sitting down to look at some of it right now. Hopefully I'll be able to work with it tomorrow, too, as I don't have to work 'til Tuesday.

audiobliss

reaper -

According to your little tutorial on feedback forms, geocities can handle cgi scripts? And is adding [html]<HTML><FORM ACTION="/cgi-bin/homestead/mail.pl?myGeoID"></HTML>[/html] using cgi? And will that make it work? I'm afraid I'm a little confused about this. That is saying to put the info the visitor submits, somewhere. Right?

I've gotta think about this...

-justin-

Wow, frames. Don't use frames, they suck for a lot of reasons.

FYI, to post PHP code use the [ php ] tags (just remove the white spaces, just like bold or other html tags in this forum)

[php]
<?
$example = 'Hi, this is php code';

function phpiscool ($sayhi) {
echo $sayhi;
}

phpiscool($example);

?>
[/php]

audiobliss

Ok, so now I can't use frames. Everything on my site uses frames right now, lol. It does what I've wanted to do for a long time. How come I should stay away from them? And what should I use in their place? Tables? I'm a little lost as to what's better.

ANY help GREATLY appreciated.

A few changes made:
www.geocities.com/carmike692000

TheReaper

Those pages of mine are serveral years old and outdated. GeoCities has changed the posting address for the form (and the reserved field names). To get the new GeoCities EMail Form html (CGI Script to post to), for EMailing the contents of a form, to your GeoCities registered EMail address (not your GeoCities email):

sign in to geocities at:

http://geocities.yahoo.com/

click on the Web Site Add Ons link:

http://geocities.yahoo.com/v/ao/

click on the EMail Forma link:

http://geocities.yahoo.com/v/ao/for.html

click on the Sample Email Form 1 link:

http://geocities.yahoo.com/v/ao/sa1.html

[html]
<form method=post action="http://geocities.yahoo.com/forms?login=carmike692000"&gt;
<font face="arial, helvetica">
<b>Your first name:</b><br>
<input type="text" name="from_name" size="27">
<p>

<b>Your EMail:</b><br>
<input type="text" name="from_email" size="27">
<p>

<b>Please add any comments you have below:</b>
</font><br>
<textarea cols="40" rows="10" name="Comments"></textarea>

<p><br>
<input type="submit" value="Send">
<input type="reset" value="Clear the form">

<!-- Option 1 -->
<input type="hidden" name="subject" value="Survey Results">

<!-- Option 2 -->
<input type="hidden" name="required_fields" value="from_name,from_email">

<!-- Option 3
<input type="hidden" name="next_url" value="http://www.geocities.com/carmike692000/index.html"&gt;
-->

</form>
[/html]

TheReaper

audiobliss wrote:

reaper - According to your little tutorial on feedback forms, geocities can handle cgi scripts? And is adding the html ... using cgi? And will that make it work? I'm afraid I'm a little confused about this. That is saying to put the info the visitor submits, somewhere. Right?

GeoCities supplies a couple of CGI Scripts on their server which you can use for free. One of them is an EMail script. It will take the submitted contents of the form (what the user fills in), and EMail it to the email address you filled in when you registered for geocities. The html I gave above, is for submitting a form to the GeoCities supplied EMail CGI Script.

audiobliss

Reaper - Thank you so much! I don't know why I couldn't find that, but I hadn't seen it. I think it works just fine, now! Thanks a bunch!

Now, what should I be using instead of frames? Why are frames so bad?

TheReaper

audiobliss wrote:

Now, what should I be using instead of frames? Why are frames so bad?

Frames:

From a user perspective (people browsing your site), frames are bad because there is no indication of where they are in your site (people get lost). Also, when people like me, open many browser windows, the navigation frames get totally lost. Finally, the code GeoCities appends to pages can sometimes interfere with frames.

The good point is, from an author's perspective. If you frequently expand your site one page at a time. Frames make it easy.

Tables:

Tables are the traditional way to layout pages. They can get to be more troublesome the more complex your layout gets, a good WYSIWYG editor helps a lot. People like me who generate pages dynamically on servers, like tables for layouts because they are infinitely expandable and fit our thought process. If you view the source of Club Polk pages, you will see they are laid out with tables.

Style Sheets/CSS/DHTML:

This is the newer kid on the block, and finally the browsers now do most of it the same (the old netscape was bad at it). This does require more learning on the authors part, but in the long run can simplify page templates, and makes it easier to give a consistent look to multiple pages. Some authors go overboard, or fail to take into account people like me who use large fonts.

AsSiMiLaTeD

I like frames

audiobliss

Ok. Thanks for all the information, guys! Much appreciated! I'll experiment some with using more tables with some of my other pages, but, as you can probably tell, I've made extensive use of frames in my 'site.

Thanks for all the help, guys!