Question re Kenwood/Alpine

zgw8

Doing some research on HUs. I have been recommended these two:

Kenwood 25th Anniversary XXV01D
Alpine CDA9855

Can someone give me some feedback?

Looking for SQ. Don't need DVD and all that other crap.

1996blackmax

I am not very familiar with the Kenwood. The Alpine I have played with on the demo board quite a few times. Some of those times I was there for a while so the sales guys came back again and said "you sure you don't need any help" . I would not buy the Alpine. I think the whole GlideTouch thing is a joke. Alpine continues to put its efforts into more show, than SQ I believe. I would take regular buttons with better DAC's over the GlideTouch. At least Kenwood was nice enough to put a 24-Bit Burr-Brown D-A Converter in their higher end HU.


If my choices were those 2, I would go with the Kenwood. From the specs and features the Kenwood seems to be very nice.

For SQ I would also take a look at Eclipse, the only thing is that their newer decks are not good lookers at all. Too much bling for me. This should not be the main thing in looking at a HU, but it may push you to look elsewhere. I am glad that I bought my Eclipse CD8454 when I did, and did not wait for the newer line. I actually got a great deal on it (I try to look at closeout models when possible). It looks pretty simple, no flashy screen (I think the screen resolution actually looks better on mine), no bling effect, just great SQ .

MacLeod

The only features I really look for in a h/u is 3 sets of preouts and high voltage outputs. I dont care much for tons of tuning features cause, frankly, I believe they do more harm than good.

That being said, go with Alpine.

hrdhtdvr

I just bought the 9855 and like it. I was doing the same debate as you and finally settled with the Alpine. I am not sorry for my decision! Sure, I would like a color screen and I don't really care for the glide touch thing. I would preferr buttons, but I can deal with it. I am still tinkering with it to get it tuned and I have had it for about 3 weeks now. It still sounds good to me and I have only put in a pair of Polk 4x6 speakers in the rear and am running stock up front, which will be replaced with a set of MMC 6500 components up front tomorrow. (8/13/05)

1996blackmax

MacLeod wrote:

The only features I really look for in a h/u is 3 sets of preouts and high voltage outputs. .

Then go with Eclipse , 8 volts at 55ohms .

MacLeod wrote:

I dont care much for tons of tuning features cause, frankly, I believe they do more harm than good

My Eclipse CD8454 has a frequency response measuring feature that sends out white noise through the speakers and then measures the frequency response in the car with the included microphone. I can see the peaks and dips on the HU's display that were measured in my own car. I can then adjust for the peaks or dips (I mainly concentrate on taming the peaks)with the HU's 5 band parametric EQ (5 for the front, and 5 for the rear), or go online and adjust them myself, or have Eclipse's E-iSERV website do the adjustments for me then upload them to the HU. The website gives you several options, I did the flat frequency response option. I had done it myself before because at first the auto adjust feature for a flat response was not working on the site. This I believe is one of the best features on this HU. It may not be perfect but it is sure a great starting point for tuning.



I believe Alpine has some catching up to do with companies like Pioneer, and Eclipse for SQ. If you are after intergrating a lot of things then Pioneer or Alpine are good choices. I would go with Pioneer as they have also stepped it up with giving you better DAC's than a comparable priced Alpine HU.


Some people may not think that DAC's and better internal parts do not make a difference, but I believe they do. The difference t may not be huge, but it is there. I could always tell the difference in sound when I had my older Alpine stuff with four 20bit Burr Brown DAC's (PCM 1702's I believe were the ones) compared to my newer Alpine gear (at the time they were a CDA-7894, and two different CDA-7998's). The difference was also there when I switched from the HU not doing the digital to analog conversion and when it did. All this took was a trip to to menu section of the 7949 and turning the optical output option off and on (this would let the PXA take over the total conversion, all other time alignment and parametric EQ settings remained the same). Even my sisters who are not very audio educated could tell the difference. I would not tell them what setting did what. I just asked them what sounded better to them, and they always picked the one where the Burr Brown's were doing the conversion, as opposed to the Alpine Regulated 1bit DAC's. Trust me if Alpine was putting out stuff like they had before at OK prices, I would jump back on board.

PoweredByDodge

only things i look for in a deck...

- 3 sets of 4 volt or higher preamp outputs
- an adjustable BBE processor or a built in 5 band minimum adjustable equalizer (until i bite the bullet and buy a separate EQ)
- something that's not going to take a dump on me in a year.

1996blackmax

BBE is a great feature. The older higher end Alpine stuff had it. Their lower end stuff has it. That Media Expander thing is a joke, I wished they still used BBE for their upper end HU's.


One other thing about Alpine is that their preouts are sometimes suspect to actually putting out what they are claiming. I am not sure about their newer stuff like the 9855, but some of their previous models had some issues with this.


Why did I have to readjust my gains when switching from Alpine to Alpine with both having "4V pre-outs". I would have to turn the gains down when my older Alpine stuff went it.

MacLeod

What does it matter. You adjust the gains to match your head units ouput and youre set.

Eclipse are nice h/u's but all those tons of features are a little overkill for me. I think it was Scotty that said,"the more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes". Same thing goes for having 54 band parametric EQ's with frequency centers and bandwidth adjusters for distortion calibrated graphic damping controls. Just give me a simple treble/bass control and maybe an option of which frequency to center it on and Im a happy guy.

1996blackmax

It matters because they are misrepresenting their product. Just say what it really is and don't pass in for something else. I would be pissed if one of my MTX amps was supposed to push 500 watts RMS at 12.5V, and when tested it only did 300. It is as simple as just not getting all of what you paid for.

Maybe I am too picky with my sound stuff. That is me though, I like being able to tune my stuff till I am happy with it . The ability to see and attack the peaks in my system without going to a shop is I believe a very usefull feature. Once you actually use the 5 parametric bands, especially on you computer screen it is very easy to ajdust your system. Also how much easier can it get than just upload the frequency response from your vehicle with the included memory stick to the Eclipse site, and have them do all of the equaliztion parameters for you. Then all you do is just stick the memory stick back into the HU and there you go.


I would have kept my Alpine 7949 and PXA-H600 processor which actually put out their 4v's, were in not for the cd player not playing CD-R's. I beleive this was my best SQ setup to date.

If you only like the abitlity to adjust the bass and treble then this is a deck that I have recommended many times. For the money and features I think it is very nice. I specially like the BBE feature . I am actually going to buy this for my mom's car as a little surprise for her .

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-yG3ZFZ5Hy4b/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=300&I=500CDA9847&search=alpine

MacLeod

Misrepresenting? Not really. No manufacturers rate their gear at precisely what it puts out but all the quality brands rate them at what it will easily make.

Take MTX, their 100 watts amps routinely make 150+. Alpine amps are unnderrated.

So Alpine can rate their outputs at 4 volts and they may be 5 volt where the older ones were 6 volts. Either way, I guarantee you that youre getting the rated output.

If you can work and figure out all those bells and whistles then thats fine. Its too complicated for me. My Gawd man, I only have treble and bass controls and a bi-amp configuration and I still drive myself crazy tweaking and re-tweaking. If I had 50 other features to deal with youd have to put me in a home.

1996blackmax

MacLeod wrote:

Misrepresenting? Not really. No manufacturers rate their gear at precisely what it puts out but all the quality brands rate them at what it will easily make.

Well, when you are getting less than advertised it is misrepresenting the products abilities.

So Alpine can rate their outputs at 4 volts and they may be 5 volt where the older ones were 6 volts. Either way, I guarantee you that youre getting the rated output.

Some of their head units have been tested and actually did not put out the advertised 4V. More along the lines of 2.3Volts. I had read on a couple of boards (I think one was from Australia), where the sub output of the 7998 only mustered something like 1.8 volts! How does the 1.8 = 4.0

My Gawd man, I only have treble and bass controls and a bi-amp configuration and I still drive myself crazy tweaking and re-tweaking. If I had 50 other features to deal with youd have to put me in a home.

Well maybe if you had all those features you would only have to tweak it a few times . Not even then I'm afraid. This is where I like the CD8454. Along with the parametric eq it also has a treble and bass feature to adjust for the different levels that different music can have. I usually have these at the 0 setting though.

MacLeod

OK. Alpine sucks.

1996blackmax

I am not saying that. I would not get an Alpine stereo for my mom if it sucked. I think that the Alpine CDA-9847 is a great HU for the price. My problem with them is that they have not kept up with the other companies which have gone with better guts for similarly priced units. With Alpine you basically get the same internals from the entry level stuff to the higher end stuff, you just gain features. With the other companies you also get better DAC's and such.

I had an Alpine MRD-M501 amp which I thought was very nice (I thought all of the processing stuff on it was cool, looked nice, and it pumped out some serious watts), but I ended up selling it to get my MTX Thunder801D. Can't blame me for that one . I have some older Alpine monitors in my car now. I am happy because the kids are happy. Heck I still have an Alpine VCR, this will have to go soon though. It is desperately needing to be changed for a DVD player.

I still like them, just not their upper end HU's. Except ofcourse their outrageulsy overpriced F#1 stuff . < there should be a drooling smiley face here

PoweredByDodge

*scratches head* ... here's a challenge for you all.

I want a new kenwood deck, with the following features.

1- will "control" my circa 2003 kenwood Sirius Sat Radio Tuner and Kenwood 10 Disc Changer which have been running off FM modulation until now. The Sat Radio has a "pass through" for the changer to hook into.

2- has that 5 band parametric EQ (my acceptable replacement for an adjustable BBE).

3- has 3 preouts with minimum voltage level of 4 volts.

4- plays cd's, mp3's, but no dvd or any of that horse ****.

5- can be found SOMEWHERE online new for under $250 (yes, we be cheap these days).

Find it minions, find it!

Excelon would be great, but I doub't that's do-able for the budget. I did notice the excelon's had the 20 bit burr brown DAC's though

neomagus00

there's no replacement for BBE, that's good stuff, and not just equalisation, either...

1996blackmax wrote:

Some of their head units have been tested and actually did not put out the advertised 4V. More along the lines of 2.3Volts. I had read on a couple of boards (I think one was from Australia), where the sub output of the 7998 only mustered something like 1.8 volts! How does the 1.8 = 4.0

keep in mind that every deck says 50Wx4 channels, but they really only make 12 or 13... methinks it's the same deal...

1996blackmax

It may be, but when other HU's say 4V's (including their own older ones) spit out more than the 4V Alpine's, something is up. Kind of makes me sad .


And you are right about BBE , I wish my current HU had it.

neomagus00

can you not get an external bbe processor?

1996blackmax

I looked, but the only one that was available only offered one input and 4 outputs. I would lose my whole time alignment function. I would rather keep that.