Amp question

bokdaddy

Hey guys, I have a simple question. I'm looking to amp my db525's and db690's. What would you say would be the best amps for the money for those sets? Any brand and model suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

1996blackmax

How much money were you thinking of spending?

bokdaddy

Well, I guess it depends. If I have to get two seperate 2-channel amps then I'd like to stay under $150 for the front speakers and under $200 for the rear. If I was to go the route of a 4-channel I think I'd like to stay under $300.

MacLeod

A 4 channel would be my choice and seeing as the 525 is a 45 watt speaker and the 690 is a 100 watt speaker, I would get something in the 50x4 range.

This Phoenix Gold would be a great choice. Its on sale right now for $170 which is a great price. PG amps are some of the best to be had so this would work great.

exalted512

what kind of vehicle? do you usually have passengers in the back?
-Cody

bokdaddy

I like the idea of the Phoenix Gold amp, I'll probably decide sometime today or tomorrow. And Cody, I have a '99 Hyundai Elantra and sometimes I do have passengers, but I think I know why you ask. I've read some people say they think it's best to just amp the fronts and get a sub, but I don't think I have the trunk space to get a sub. Maybe later, but for now I think I want to amp all four speakers. Thanks again guys.

exalted512

i wasnt going to recommend getting a sub, i was just going to recommend not buying rear speakers and use the money you save to buy some bad **** front speakers. Hell, if you want to kicker makes some midbass 6.5s you can pick up and low pass them at 90Hz and put them in the rear deck.

But honestly, CDs are recorded in stereo, no since in having rear speakers when all it does is make you SQ go to ****. The elantra isnt a big SUV or something, your passengers will def. be able to hear the front speakers. Or you could always leave your stock ones in and run them off the head unit and only amp your front speakers and just leave it faded to the front when you dont have passengers.

the setup i would go with:
these components
http://www.cardomain.com/item/POLMMC6500
these midbasses
http://cgi.ebay.com/KICKER-SSMB6-6-5-MIDBASS-FREE-AIR-SPEAKERS-SUBS-NEW-04_W0QQitemZ5796204340QQcategoryZ18799QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
this amp
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=13125
total being $640

the budget you listed with all the equipment together was $650

or this setup:
same components
this amp:
http://www.cardomain.com/item/POLC3002
these rears(not amped):
http://www.cardomain.com/item/POLDB650
total being $585

for wiring, look no other place than www.knukonceptz.com
-Cody

1996blackmax

I think that if you run the rear speakers at a level that complements the front speakers, you will still end up with a nice front stage, and a little bit fuller sound. I have tried to run just the front speakers, and I always went back to using my rears.

MacLeod

Cody is right that rear speakers will screw up your SQ somewhat.

First off having the same music coming at you from different distances, itll hit your ears at different times resulting in some cancellation which will blur the detail a bit.

Second, it pulls your stage to the rear.

That being said, your SQ wont suck with rear speakers and it does add a sense of "depth" to the music. Plus if youre hauling around passengers a lot and like to listen to music as opposed to driving and talking, then rear speakers are not a bad idea. Its just that you wont achieve the best SQ with rears.

wlrandall

Good advice from everyone, I have the same opinion as max. At a very low level, the rears do add a little fill. When I first set it up, it did sound crappy with the frt/rr balanced at 0.

Also, Fry's has the Polk C300.2 for $99 here in Dallas. Don't know about your area, but that is a fantastic price for a very underrated and clean amp.

1996blackmax

MacLeod wrote:

Cody is right that rear speakers will screw up your SQ somewhat.

First off having the same music coming at you from different distances, itll hit your ears at different times resulting in some cancellation which will blur the detail a bit.

Second, it pulls your stage to the rear.

That being said, your SQ wont suck with rear speakers and it does add a sense of "depth" to the music. Plus if youre hauling around passengers a lot and like to listen to music as opposed to driving and talking, then rear speakers are not a bad idea. Its just that you wont achieve the best SQ with rears.

This is where playing with the time delay on my HU does very nice things to the sound . You can add increased delay to the rear speakers to give a sense of a larger listening enviroment if you want. It also helps with the localization of the vocals and instrument on the soundstage. It is hard to explain, but I have been playing around with time delay and rear speakers for many years. Way before it was the norm on even the high end HU's. This was back when you could only get this with add on processors, and the time delay settings were not done for you on a website, but by you, your measuring tape, and a calculator. As I said before, I have tried many times just running the fronts (everything setup properly), and I was never as happy with the sound as with a properly setup rear fill. When properly setup the rear speakers should not even be noticeable from the driver's seat. Rear fill is not there to attract attention, but to add a little depth to the music. I have mine to a point where you can't even tell that the rear speakers are on from the driver's seat, but when turned off you can tell something is missing.

Also over the years I think that there have been many individuals that have won SQ competitions while using rear fill speakers. Obviously if properly done rear fill can sound nice in a vehicle.

1996blackmax

wlrandall wrote:

Also, Fry's has the Polk C300.2 for $99 here in Dallas. Don't know about your area, but that is a fantastic price for a very underrated and clean amp.

That is a great price for a very nice amp. If I was in the market for a 2ch. amp I would definately pick one up.

MacLeod

1996blackmax wrote:

This is where playing with the time delay on my HU does very nice things to the sound . You can add increased delay to the rear speakers to give a sense of a larger listening enviroment if you want. It also helps with the localization of the vocals and instrument on the soundstage. It is hard to explain, but I have been playing around with time delay and rear speakers for many years. Way before it was the norm on even the high end HU's. This was back when you could only get this with add on processors, and the time delay settings were not done for you on a website, but by you, your measuring tape, and a calculator. As I said before, I have tried many times just running the fronts (everything setup properly), and I was never as happy with the sound as with a properly setup rear fill. When properly setup the rear speakers should not even be noticeable from the driver's seat. Rear fill is not there to attract attention, but to add a little depth to the music. I have mine to a point where you can't even tell that the rear speakers are on from the driver's seat, but when turned off you can tell something is missing.

Also over the years I think that there have been many individuals that have won SQ competitions while using rear fill speakers. Obviously if properly done rear fill can sound nice in a vehicle.

The vast majority of SQ competitors that I know about use front speakers only. A lot of them have rears, but they are turned off in competiton.

But like I said, there isnt anything really wrong with rear speakers. They do seem to add depth to the sound. The only things they really affect are the stage and some detail.

But thats the great thing about this, you do what sounds best to you and tell everybody else to kiss yo ****!

(Oh and time delay is cheating. )

PoweredByDodge

first off...

- phoenix gold TANTRUM series amps are very nice.

- phoenix gold OCTANE series amps are a curse i would not wish upon my worst enemy. they are, no doubt, dog **** in a steel case. complete and total junk.



secondly...

- some vehicles, you do need rear speakers. i only have 3.5" holes in the front of the cadillac, and i've no intention of cutting the car up... 3.5" speakers are crap... so i needed rears to fill in the "guts" of the music. I believe that unless you are going to spend a good buck on fronts and get a high power amp to push them, then it is no sin to have rear speakers. ESPECIALLY if you don't have a subwoofer or have a vehicle with large cabin space.

third...

- as far as an amp, with 5.25 up front at around 50 wrms, and rear 6x9's with high efficiency and a 100w rating... an amp around 65 - 75 x 4 would be a good idea. more power is always better to have... assuming equal power is sent to all 4 speakers, just turn your fader a little to the front, and call it a day. dump a 85 hertz high pass crossover on the fronts, and a 50 - 60 on the rears and bang away dude.

bokdaddy

Thanks guys for all your suggestions. I'll take them all into consideration. I haven't made a decision on an amp yet but my main concern has been overpowering the fronts. Since the db525 are rated as 45w rms wouldn't I run into some trouble trying to use an amp rated at higher than 50w?

1996blackmax

MacLeod wrote:

But thats the great thing about this, you do what sounds best to you and tell everybody else to kiss yo ****!

That is basically what I end up telling people when it comes to sound in their cars. If the setup sounds good to you that is all that matters. I specially like telling people this in front of the sale's person who is tellng them a bunch of crap to increase their commision.


(Oh and time delay is cheating. )[/QUOTE]

I know, but my car and family are happy as I do not go crazy with the jigsaw or an elaborate installation .

1996blackmax

bokdaddy wrote:

Thanks guys for all your suggestions. I'll take them all into consideration. I haven't made a decision on an amp yet but my main concern has been overpowering the fronts. Since the db525 are rated as 45w rms wouldn't I run into some trouble trying to use an amp rated at higher than 50w?

You'll be ok as long as you set the gains appropriately on the amp and practice some volume control .


Most speakers are blown due to distortion from underpowering them. Meaning that you have an amplifier that puts out less (clean) power than the maximum RMS rating on the speaker, you then try to turn it up past the point of clean power output, asking the amp to do more than in can, and then it just throws a lot of distortion as the speaker. What you end up with is a fried voice coil .